The cladded tube sheet is not provided with an MTR in accordance with a standard for claded plates acceptable by Section VIII-1?
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| From: bas karan Sent: Παρασκευή, 23 Οκτωβρίου 2015 - 11:45 To: Materials & Welding Reply To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:23785] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End |
Dear Ajay,
On Monday, January 24, 2011 at 6:42:01 PM UTC+8, ajay dokku wrote:
-- Hi to all,
i am also facing same type of issue.
i have bought a tubesheet for heat exchanger, CS(SA266Gr2) base metal with SS316L(SA240) clad plate 10 mm thick.
My AI said, need to get the PDR from the vendor. But the vendor is no stamp holder.
ASME VIII Div.1 - UW-27(2), explosive bonding included in pressure welding process and
added in ENDNOTES (70) - explosive welding—a solid state welding process wherein coalescence is produced by the application of pressure by
means of an explosion.
and another thins is clad plate is for corrosive resistance only, design calculation did not considered this clad plate thickness.
please explain to me, what are the acitivities required to proceed without PDR.
Thanking you
Baskaran.V
On Monday, January 24, 2011 at 6:42:01 PM UTC+8, ajay dokku wrote:
In my opinion still there is no need of PDR, Following is the justification:1. Reference: UG 11(b)......."All such parts shall be made of materials permitted under this division".Cladded plates will be certified as per either SA 263/264/265, which complies to the material requirement permitted by ASME Sec.VIII Div.1 as per Clause UCL 11(a). Please note that the UG11(b) is for "Cast, Forged, Rolled, or die Formed Non-Standard Pressure Parts" & not for the Raw Materials (In our case it's clsad plate).2. Reference SA263/264/265, Section 14 "Repair of Cladding by welding": Please note that even repair of defects in clad is allowed by welding, provided it meets all the requirement stated in Clause 14.1.1 to 14.1.6. The point to be noted is that there is no restriction on the area of repair i.e. the plate manufaturer can still repair the clad throught the length of the plate and still can certify the plate. So, no PDR is asked in this case. And the same case is applicable to the splice joint of SS plate prior to bonding.However, you need to have all the documents in place similar to what asked for the repair i.e. WPS/PQR & WQR in accordacne to Sex.IX (Clause 14.1.2) etc. You can even ask for higher extent of examination, as it is upto the purchaser.3. I can understand the conserns of AI. They would be more concerned about the integrity of the weld which can be taken care by proper evaluation of documents, using proper consumable, using qualifeid welders, and testing (PT) the weld . However, the plates itself are acceptable with certain defect to an extent, such as lamination. Please note that the more emphasis shall be on the properties & bonding of the plates.4. We had used the clad plates with similar issue and with no PDR, in my previous organisation. The base plate size was 3050 x 12000mm. And getting the SS plate in the same size is not always practical. You can also check with your clad plate supplier, as they would had surely supplied plates with similar issue without PDR.I hope, this would be justifying. And still, If AI is confirming that PDR is required, then i would be keen to know as per which clause of the standard. Looking forward to have your response.Dokku Ajay Kumar
Mobile: +966 500071054
From: Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 3:12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:9414] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End--Dear Ajay,The Rewording you have provided is absolutely correct.I have consulted our A.I and he confirmed that the PDR is required.Still i am not totally convienced. I think you can put more light by supporting similar real time work in past.Hope to hear more information regarding the same.Thanks & RegardsVino P Varghese
____________________________________________________________ ____ On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:32 AM, DOKKU AJAY <akd...@yahoo.com> wrote:Rewording your query, correct me if i'm wrong,"The clad plate will be in 2 pieces welded together which will be bonded together with base plate of SA516 Gr.70 (Single piece). After the explosion bonding, then the plate will be formed to make head."If this is the case, then you don't need to have PDR, as i believe the plates (Base+clad) will be prodcued & certified as per SA-263/264/265 and then formed into heads. Please refer UCL-11 (a).If still in doubt, then consult your AI.Dokku Ajay Kumar
Mobile: +966 500071054
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 2:46:38 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:9390] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End--Dear Karthik and All,Thanks for the reply. Appreciate to see your quick reponse.I have 1 more Question for you.The manufacturer does not have a single piece for the Cladded part(3mm) and they intent to achieve this by joining 2 plates by welding. The Base Material(27 mm) Plate is Seamless for the Dish End.The Dish End is achieved by Explosion Bond Process and the Base Materials is 27mm, SA 516 Gr.70 + 3mm Clad Plate(Inclloy 825).The disbond shall be checked by UT.As there will be Welding involved, should not we request for a Partial Data Report signed by a A.I at the Manufacturer Shop before it is delivery at our Fabrication Shop?ThanksVino VargheseDoha-Qatar____________________________________________________________ _______________ On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Karthik <karth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
Please find below my suggestions as marked in RED.1) Does this shop need to have ASME "U" Stamp? - No need. (UG-11 (b) )2) Do we require a Partial Data Report from this Manufacturing Unit duly signed by Autorised Inspector? - No need.Manufacturer of the
part shall furnish identification in accordance with UG-93.
You have to certify the Dish end as you are the U stamp holder and manufacturer as per (UG-11 (b) ) and UG-79 and submit the report and related documents to AI for acceptance.3) Do we require this Manufacturing Unit to be Approved by requesting them to submit Pre-Approval Document? - As per your Quality System.4) What all min. Documents are required to be submitted in accordance to ASME Sec VIIII Div 1. - If for dish end only means,Material certificates,Dimension Reports,If there is any Heattreatment applicable...Heat treatment report etc.,
If for the Whole vessel,it will be as per your quality manual and ASME Sec.VIII,Div.1-Appendix-10,10-3 (Record Retension) 5) The Contract for this Vessel was signed by Client on June 2010. Can we use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda or we have to follow ASME 2010? - You can use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 AddendaHope to see as usual opinion. Also someone can share QAP of similar use.(SA 516 Gr. 70 + Clad , Incolloy 825.) and relevant WPS. - You mean ITP? it shall be prepared by you as per the drawing and scope of work.Please do provide relevant Clause from ASME supporting the above Queries.
For WPS..please send the doubts in preparation of WPS.we can assist you.Thanks & Regards,(Karthik)Karthikeyan.SQA/QC ManagerGetabec Energy Co.,Ltd.379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,Rayong-21180,Thailand.Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)Fax: 0066 38 897034Hand Phone: 0066 892512282
--- On Fri, 1/21/11, Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com>
Subject: [MW:9358] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 2:17 AM--Dear All,We have a Partial Cladded Vessel("U" Stamp Vessel) which we are intend to fabricate at our Manufacturing shop and is designed for Sour Service.The Overall thickness is 30 mm.The Partial Claddded Area has the -Base material = 27 mm thickness , SA 516 Gr. 70Clad Material = 3mm min. , Incolloy 825.One of the Dish End is a Cladded part(Explosion Bond Method) which we are planning to off load work to a "U" Stamp Manufacturer Shop due to limited forming availablity at our Fabrication Facility.My Question -1) Does this shop need to have ASME "U" Stamp? - No need. (UG-11 (b) )2) Do we require a Partial Data Report from this Manufacturing Unit duly signed by Autorised Inspector? - No need.Manufacturer of the
part shall furnish identification in accordance with UG-93.
You have to certify the Dish end as you are the U stamp holder and manufacturer as per (UG-11 (b) ) and UG-79 and submit the report and related documents to AI for acceptance.3) Do we require this Manufacturing Unit to be Approved by requesting them to submit Pre-Approval Document? - As per your Quality System.4) What all min. Documents are required to be submitted in accordance to ASME Sec VIIII Div 1. - If for dish end only means,Material certificates,Dimension Reports,If there is any Heattreatment applicable...Heat treatment report etc.,
If for the Whole vessel,it will be as per your quality manual and ASME Sec.VIII,Div.1-Appendix-10,10-3 (Record Retension) 5) The Contract for this Vessel was signed by Client on June 2010. Can we use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda or we have to follow ASME 2010? - You can use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 AddendaPlease do provide relevant Clause from ASME supporting the above Queries.Hope to see as usual opinion. Also someone can share QAP of similar use.(SA 516 Gr. 70 + Clad , Incolloy 825.) and relevant WPS. - You mean ITP? it shall be prepared by you as per the drawing and scope of work.
For WPS..please send the doubts in preparation of WPS.we can assist you.Thanks & RegardsVino P VargheseDoha-Qatar
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