Re: [MW:0] Combination of PQR for WPS

Mr.John,

 

Based on the question 2, i have clarification,

 

1) Is it psossible to club the WPS, even if the PQR is not recorded on min.13 mm thk plate or pipe ?

 

2) Last but one ,

 

Qualified maximum SAW deposit thickness:  200mm or 188 mm , for the combined base metal thickness ranges ?

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

K. Babu

 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Henning

To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 1:46 AM

Subject: RE: [MW:8997] Combination of PQR for WPS

QW-200.4 (a) allows you to combine these two PQR's to support a single WPS.  In such a case the WPS will be restricted to the minimum range qualified by the PQR base metals (per QW-451);  i.e. the intersection of the two individual qualified ranges.   Therefore, your WPS would allow the following (assuming no impact requirements):

 

Qualified base metal range:  5mm to 12mm  ( 1.5mm < T1 < 12mm, 5mm < T2 < 30mm )

Maximum Qualified GTAW deposit:  12mm

Maximum qualified SMAW deposit:  12mm

 

 

REF:  (from HSB site)  Interpretations – File No. BC-80-628, no interpretation number

 

Question (2): A WPS is being written for groove welding of pipe to utilize a GTAW root pass and SMAW fill. A previously qualified PQR welded on a ¼ in. thick test plate using GTAW and a previously qualified PQR welded on a 3/8 in. thick test plate using SMAW are to be used to support the combination WPS. What are the maximum thickness ranges of the combination WPS?

Reply (2): Based on Question (2), the deposited weld metal thickness range for the GTAW is 1/16 in. through ½ in. and for the SMAW is 1/16 in. through ¾ in. The base metal thickness range for the combination WPS is 1/16 in. through ½ in.

 

Ref. also, HSB topic Specific Code FAQs:

 

Q: Is it possible to apply two separately qualified WPS's to the same joint in combination without qualification of a combined PQR?

A: Per QW-200.4, it is acceptable to apply both WPS's to the same joint without further qualification. The deposited weld metal qualification ranges may be "stacked", allowing the application of the maximum qualified thickness of deposited weld metal for each WPS/process in a single joint. However, the user is cautioned that the maximum base metal thickness qualified for the most limiting WPS must be applied. The base metal thickness ranges cannot be "stacked" to qualify for a greater thickness in combination. (In my opinion the italicized section also applies to the minimum qualified thickness as well as the maximum)

If impacts were required, since there would be no intersection of qualified base metal thickness, one could not combine the two PQR's to support a valid WPS.  New PQR(s) would have to be performed.

 

QW-200.4(b) is an exception to the general rules for root pass process qualified with a PQR with base metal thickness > 13mm, and a second PQR for a fill process qualified with a base metal thickness greater than the base metal thickness used with the root pass PQR.  With the enquirers conditions, QW-200.4(b) does  not apply as both PQRs would have to have been performed on material thickness greater than 13mm which is not the case.  One example of an acceptable combination would be PQR 1 –13mm thick base metal w/ GTAW root (for the purpose of example say 6mm deposit thickness, t) combined with PQR 2:  38mm base metal thickness welded completely by SAW

These conditions would result in a combined WPS such as:

 

Qualified base metal range:  5mm to 200mm

Qualified maximum GTAW deposit thickness:  12mm

Qualified maximum SAW deposit thickness:  200mm

 

Hope this helps - John

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of praveen alavandar
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:35 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:8984] Combination of PQR for WPS

 

manpreet,   you still cannot combine both these PQRs, you should either use PQR 1 or PQR 2.   Regards,   Praveen --- On Wed, 12/29/10, manpreet <manpreetsin88@rediffmail.com> wrote: From: manpreet <manpreetsin88@rediffmail.com> Subject: Re: [MW:8979] Combination of PQR for WPS To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 3:25 PM Dear Pravin, Thanks for your valuable feedback. I did consider QW-200.4(b) and wanted further calrification so i raised this point, now i would present actual ranges, no impact required PQR 1-  1.5mm to 12mm PQR 2-   5mm to 30mm  Combined:- 5mm to 12mm, is it ok now? Regards Manpreet Singh On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 13:32:29 , praveen alavandar <praveenakds@yahoo.com> wrote Manpreet,   You cannot support combining these two PQR's to prepare a WPS having a wide range from 1.5mm to 30mm, you are deviating from the clause QW-200.4(b) of ASME Sec.IX. see below.   "For GTAW, SMAW, GMAW, PAW, and SAW, or combinations of these processes, a PQR for a process recording a test coupon that was at least 1⁄2 in. (13 mm) thick may be combined with one or more other PQRs recording another welding process and any greater base metal thickness. In this case, the process recorded on the first PQR may be used to deposit the root layers using the process(es) recorded on that PQR up to 2t (for shortcircuiting type of GMAW, see QW-404.32) in thickness on base metal of the maximum thickness qualified by the other PQR(s) used to support the WPS. The requirements of Note (1) of tables QW-451.1 and QW-451.2 shall apply."   So you will have,   for PQR 1 : WPS range : 1.5mm to 12mm (Without impact) & 2.5mm to 12mm (With impact) assuming you dont do a PWHT above the upper transformation temperature.   For PQR 2: WPS range : 5mm to 30mm (Without impact) & 15mm to 30mm (With impact)   Regards,   Praveen --- On Wed, 12/29/10, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote: From: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> Subject: RE: [MW:8975] Combination of PQR for WPS To: "materials-welding" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 12:57 PM 5-12mm w/o impact, else 6-12mm   From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of manpreet Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:03 PM To: materials-welding Subject: [MW:8974] Combination of PQR for WPS   Dear All, Procedure qualification as per ASME sec ix, I have 2 PQR:-                         *PQR 1-   GTaw-6mm thick                          *PQR 2-   Smaw- 15 mm thick What would be the thickness renge for base and weld metal? for combined WPS,  base metal thickness range shall be 1.5mm to 30mm, am i correct? Regards Manpreet Singh -- To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.   -- To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. -- To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

 

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For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.