[MW:23051] FW: 23048] Re: Local PWHT of butt welds in piping

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Hi Vishwas,

 

PWHT cycle ,T& T, rate of heating /rate of cooling should be as per the piping design codes, e.g B-31.1 or 31.3 or others as  specified in the drawings or specifications.

 

AWS D-10.10 should be followed also as a guiding document for setting up equipments, e.g, heating pads, thermocouples,.....to facilitate the PWHT. In fact you need to to look at D-10.10 for detailed  guidelines, assuming these pipes would not be heat treated in in furnace.

 

Thanks

 

 

Pradip Goswami, P.Eng,IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Ontario, Canada

pgoswami@quickclic.net

pradip.goswami@gmail.com

 

---

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:19:30 AM UTC+5:30, Vishwas Keskar Welding Manager Pune India wrote:

For long piping(Carbon steel, alloy steel), butt welding of large diameter(219mm OD TO 606mm OD, THK - 18.26mm to 42 mm )pipes is carried out. 

For PWHT of these butt welds, what are the parameters shall be considered for effective PWHT?

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[MW:23048] P1 to P43 Dissimilar Joint PWHT Requirements

If you have PQR of ENicrMo3 weld built up on P1 material to P43, then it is the best solution for this joint.

If with PWHT with impact test vessel, then you should follow same procedure for this production joint.

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Re: [MW:23048] SIMULATION TEST REQUIREMENTS AS PER ASME SEC. VIII DIV. 2

Hi,

SPWHT is mandatory for non standard forgings and plates. For standard products it is always a topic of argument with client. If you read 3.10 thoroughly for standard items like elbow, pipes and flanges it is not required. But if you think out of the box, if plate requires why not for other products? the main idea behind it is to check material properties after heat treatment. So client may insist for all the materials involved. 

On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 1:25 PM, 'CHINTUKUMAR GANDHI' via Materials & Welding <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,

Greetings of the day.

In one of our project order design code is ASME Sec. VIII Div. 2. Is simulation required for all materials like plate, pipes, forgings, fittings as per Part 3.10 of ASME Sec. VIII Div. 2. Vessels are to be PWHT by client requirement not code requirement.

Please send me an interpretation/ understanding of Part No. 3.10 of ASME Sec. VIII Div. 2.

Thanks to all in advance.

With warm regards,

C. R. GANDHI

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regards,
Dsilva

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[MW:23048] Re: Local PWHT of butt welds in piping

Alan 

thanks .We intend to follow B 31.1 POWER PIPING CODE AS FABRICATION CODE IS ASME B 31.1

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:19:30 AM UTC+5:30, Vishwas Keskar Welding Manager Pune India wrote:

For long piping(Carbon steel, alloy steel), butt welding of large diameter(219mm OD TO 606mm OD, THK - 18.26mm to 42 mm )pipes is carried out. 

For PWHT of these butt welds, what are the parameters shall be considered for effective PWHT?

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[MW:23047] Study materials and Question papers for Nace CIP1 and CIP 2

Dear Sirs 

Do any of you have study materials and question papers for NACE CIP1 and CIP2 courses?

Could please help by forwarding it to me? 

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Thanks and Regards

 

Murugesan 

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[MW:23046] SIMULATION TEST REQUIREMENTS AS PER ASME SEC. VIII DIV. 2

Dear Experts,

Greetings of the day.

In one of our project order design code is ASME Sec. VIII Div. 2. Is simulation required for all materials like plate, pipes, forgings, fittings as per Part 3.10 of ASME Sec. VIII Div. 2. Vessels are to be PWHT by client requirement not code requirement.

Please send me an interpretation/ understanding of Part No. 3.10 of ASME Sec. VIII Div. 2.

Thanks to all in advance.

With warm regards,

C. R. GANDHI

Re: [MW:23045] A335GrP11 to A560 50Cr Ni Alloy Material (welding purpose)

Specify standard to be followed.

On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Bas Kar <baskarmech15@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Expects,

             Here we are using coil material is A335GrP11. This coil have stiffener support material is A560 50Cr50Ni Alloy Material.

             Coil material Thk is 6.55 and Support material thk is 22 mm...

            The welding position comes Double Bevel with 3G Position. Our client told how we conduct the PQT and How many Sample Piece required.

            Give your valuable suggestions.

Thanks & Regards
Baskar P
Ph :- +91 9944876002

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Welding Engineer
Mukand Ltd
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Moble :+91-9833397917

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[MW:23044] A335GrP11 to A560 50Cr Ni Alloy Material (welding purpose)

Dear Expects,

             Here we are using coil material is A335GrP11. This coil have stiffener support material is A560 50Cr50Ni Alloy Material.

             Coil material Thk is 6.55 and Support material thk is 22 mm...

            The welding position comes Double Bevel with 3G Position. Our client told how we conduct the PQT and How many Sample Piece required.

            Give your valuable suggestions.

Thanks & Regards
Baskar P
Ph :- +91 9944876002

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[MW:23043] Welding Procedure - A304 Gr 4145H - Drilling Pipe

Dear All,

We need to do repair welding on A304 Gr 4145H, kindly advice what are all the welding parameters to be followed, welding electrode to be used.

Thanks and regards.

D. Rajesh

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Re: [MW:23042] Lap joint

thanks very much , i'll find it.

Vào 14:17:12 UTC+7 Thứ Ba, ngày 26 tháng 5 năm 2015, HAMID HAMIDI đã viết:

no problem, see aws d1.1 table 4.1 page 130. for more information see  pre qualify wps .

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:19 AM, JERRY TUAN <jerr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear experts and seniors.  If groove weld can cover for fillet weld, AWS D1.1 , can it cover for lap joint? Cause I read some where else in AWS D 1.1 that lap joint weld can be consider as fillet weld. Thanks all

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[MW:23041] P1 to P43 Dissimilar Joint PWHT Requirements

My question is regarding the PWHT requirements for above vessels,

1.Does the shell to nozzle weld edges to be buttered by Er NiCrMo-3 before PWHT and groove welding by Er NiCrMo-3 after PWHT?

YES.

or
2.Or a PQR of dissimilar joint P1 to P43 with PWHT (of P1 requirements) can be used directly?

P43PWHT NOT RECCOMENDED.HENCE GO WITH OPTION ABOVE.


UNF 56 : Does not address such dissimilar joint
UNF-56 POSTWELD HEAT TREATMENT
(a) Postweld heat treatment of nonferrous materials is not normally necessary nor desirable.
Kindly share your experience/recommendations.
Thanks.

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Re: [MW:23040] Heat Analysis Requirements

Product analysis is a responsibility of manufacturer of the parts, who has access to the billet which parts made from (by forging, rolling, welding or some times re-casting). 

If a manufacturer uses a process without any secondary casting to produce a part (forging, rolling, ...) then, the chemical analysis from the initial billet uses for evaluation of heat analysis. 

If he uses process\processes which include remelting and casting for producing parts, then the analysis should be held after this casting process and assumes as heat analysis.

You as a user of such parts should evaluate the conformance of that part with related standard by testing it according to that standard, which one may be chemical analysis. Such chemical analysis from final product is named as product analysis.

Please note that the product may pass some stages between heat analysis and product analysis (machining, blasting, heat treatment, some nondestructive tests, coating or painting & ... but never casting).

Regards

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 3:09 PM, hard <hvdesai1284@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

            We all know that ASTM 105 & ASTM A 234 have their own General requirements given in ASTM A 960, A 961 etc. which should also be addressed along with original Product requirements. 

Now as per A 960/ 961 : Heat Analysis : "An Analysis of each heat of steel shall be made by the manufacturer to determine the percentage of those element specified in the individual product specification. If secondary melting process are employed, the heat analysis shall be obtained from one re-melted ingot of each Primary melt. The chemical Analysis thus determined shall conform to the requirements of the individual product specification. Note that Product Analysis(Check analysis) tolerances are not to be applied to the heat analysis requirements." 

Product Analysis: If a Product Analysis is performed, it shall be in accordance with Test Methods, Practices & Terminology A 751.

I have following questions for the above.

1. I want to know what exactly A 960/961 wants to say for "Black Highlighted-Underlined Part of "Heat Analysis". What is Primary & Secondary Melting Processes???

2. I have TCs of ASTM A 105 & ASTM A 234, which are only having Product Analysis. They don't have "Heat Analysis" Can we say that it is totally conforming to A 105 & A234?? As far as I can understand "Heat Analysis" is Mandatory for materials having this both Grades, "Product Analysis" is optional. m I right????

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M. Shokri Arfaei

ISA-ISTS - Metallurgy Lab. Manager

ASNT NDT Level III

International Welding Engineer

Tel.: +98 21 66282127

Fax: +98 21 66282779

Mob.:+98 912 1394023

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[MW:23039] Heat Analysis Requirements

Dear All,

            We all know that ASTM 105 & ASTM A 234 have their own General requirements given in ASTM A 960, A 961 etc. which should also be addressed along with original Product requirements. 

Now as per A 960/ 961 : Heat Analysis : "An Analysis of each heat of steel shall be made by the manufacturer to determine the percentage of those element specified in the individual product specification. If secondary melting process are employed, the heat analysis shall be obtained from one re-melted ingot of each Primary melt. The chemical Analysis thus determined shall conform to the requirements of the individual product specification. Note that Product Analysis(Check analysis) tolerances are not to be applied to the heat analysis requirements." 

Product Analysis: If a Product Analysis is performed, it shall be in accordance with Test Methods, Practices & Terminology A 751.

I have following questions for the above.

1. I want to know what exactly A 960/961 wants to say for "Black Highlighted-Underlined Part of "Heat Analysis". What is Primary & Secondary Melting Processes???

2. I have TCs of ASTM A 105 & ASTM A 234, which are only having Product Analysis. They don't have "Heat Analysis" Can we say that it is totally conforming to A 105 & A234?? As far as I can understand "Heat Analysis" is Mandatory for materials having this both Grades, "Product Analysis" is optional. m I right????

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[MW:23038] RE: 23031] Local PWHT of butt welds in piping

The following link may be of use to you.

http://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/job-knowledge/heat-treatment-of-welded-joints-part-3-116/

 

The other articles by TWI under the same topic should also be of interest.

 

Best wishes

 

Alan Denney

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vishwas Keskar Welding Manager Pune India
Sent: 25 May 2015 16:29
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:23031] Local PWHT of butt welds in piping

 

For long piping(Carbon steel, alloy steel), butt welding of large diameter(219mm OD TO 606mm OD, THK - 18.26mm to 42 mm )pipes is carried out. 

For PWHT of these butt welds, what are the parameters shall be considered for effective PWHT?

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Re: [MW:23037] Lap joint

no problem, see aws d1.1 table 4.1 page 130. for more information see  pre qualify wps .

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:19 AM, JERRY TUAN <jerrytuan@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear experts and seniors.  If groove weld can cover for fillet weld, AWS D1.1 , can it cover for lap joint? Cause I read some where else in AWS D 1.1 that lap joint weld can be consider as fillet weld. Thanks all

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Re: [MW:23036] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

as per ASME, without PQR ref , WPS is invalid unless it is SWPS

as code of Sec9, groove weld will qualify Fillet weld also

THANKS & BEST REGARDS

KG.PANDITHAN, AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 10:42 AM, 'alireza samimi' via Materials & Welding <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear

With WPS for groove you cannot do anything for fillet

But if you have PQR on Groove then you can prepare WPS for fillet according ASME or ISO 15614-1

 

Best Regards,

Alireza Samimi Mottaghi

International welding engineer-Senior Welding inspector-Lecturer of IWE

+61-411509219

Australia-Newcastle

 

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M.Sathiya Narayanan
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 2:05 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:23030] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

 

Dear

 

WPS is restricted to what for it is written, some of the WPS written for fillet, Groove,  fillet + Groove 

 

These are based on Limitation by Qualified PQR 

 

For your query

 

what is the reference code for PQR qualification , with that code if the PQR limitations allow to use for both just rewriting the WPS  as per your requirement with PQR limitation will serve you

 

 

Regards

M.Sathiyanarayanan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 7:42 AM, meisam shokri arfaei <meisamshokri@gmail.com> wrote:

I Think that the question was about welding and not about qualification.

 

Whenever a WPS (whether Standard, pre-qualified or qualified) prepared, the manufacturer allow to use it only with values or in the range which mentioned in that WPS.

 

The qualification has a different story. One or more WPS's may qualified with single PQR (or number of PQR's which are less than the number of WPS's and in some cases one PQR for each WPS) under the criteria and qualification rules of the design and/or qualification code. 

 

So, in summary, if you have a WPS for welding a groove weld, you allowed to use it just for that. For a fillet weld you should prepare a new WPS. however both may qualified with a single WPS.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:41 AM, anosh wankhade <anosh_wankhade@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Agreed with Dr. Georgious,

 

This is listed as non essential Variable in ASME section IX.

Please refer QW : 4.2.30 

Regards,

 

Anosh Wankhade

From: george.dilintas@gr.bureauveritas.com
Sent: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:54:53
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:23005] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

 

When ASME is the Code, yes
This is not the case for EN 15614-1

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS PIRAEUS - GREECE

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113 /4 /5
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04


Mohammed Ghani ---21/05/2015 13:13:43---Dear Experts, Can any one suggest if Groove welding WPS will also allow welding with

From: Mohammed Ghani <ghani386@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: 21/05/2015 13:13
Subject: [MW:23002] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.
Sent by: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

---

Dear Experts, 

Can any one suggest if Groove welding WPS will also allow welding with fillet. please guide with reference standard clause.

--
Thanks and Regards, ?

Mohammed Ghani,

CSWIP 3.1 / BGAS L-2 / ISO 9001:2008 QMS LA.

Mechanical Inspector,
BUREAU VERITAS.


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[MW:23034] RE: 23032] Lap joint

Dear Jerry,
You should consider Definition of joint and weld is different.
We can make lap joint with fillet weld
There is some standards just for definition

Best Regards,
Alireza Samimi Mottaghi
International welding engineer-Senior Welding inspector-Lecturer of IWE
+61-411509219
Australia-Newcastle


-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JERRY TUAN
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2015 11:28 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:23032] Lap joint

Dear experts and seniors. If groove weld can cover for fillet weld, AWS D1.1 , can it cover for lap joint? Cause I read some where else in AWS D 1.1 that lap joint weld can be consider as fillet weld. Thanks all

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RE: [MW:23035] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

Dear

With WPS for groove you cannot do anything for fillet

But if you have PQR on Groove then you can prepare WPS for fillet according ASME or ISO 15614-1

 

Best Regards,

Alireza Samimi Mottaghi

International welding engineer-Senior Welding inspector-Lecturer of IWE

+61-411509219

Australia-Newcastle

 

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of M.Sathiya Narayanan
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 2:05 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:23030] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

 

Dear

 

WPS is restricted to what for it is written, some of the WPS written for fillet, Groove,  fillet + Groove 

 

These are based on Limitation by Qualified PQR 

 

For your query

 

what is the reference code for PQR qualification , with that code if the PQR limitations allow to use for both just rewriting the WPS  as per your requirement with PQR limitation will serve you

 

 

Regards

M.Sathiyanarayanan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 7:42 AM, meisam shokri arfaei <meisamshokri@gmail.com> wrote:

I Think that the question was about welding and not about qualification.

 

Whenever a WPS (whether Standard, pre-qualified or qualified) prepared, the manufacturer allow to use it only with values or in the range which mentioned in that WPS.

 

The qualification has a different story. One or more WPS's may qualified with single PQR (or number of PQR's which are less than the number of WPS's and in some cases one PQR for each WPS) under the criteria and qualification rules of the design and/or qualification code. 

 

So, in summary, if you have a WPS for welding a groove weld, you allowed to use it just for that. For a fillet weld you should prepare a new WPS. however both may qualified with a single WPS.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:41 AM, anosh wankhade <anosh_wankhade@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Agreed with Dr. Georgious,

 

This is listed as non essential Variable in ASME section IX.

Please refer QW : 4.2.30 

Regards,

 

Anosh Wankhade

From: george.dilintas@gr.bureauveritas.com
Sent: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:54:53
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:23005] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

 

When ASME is the Code, yes
This is not the case for EN 15614-1

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS PIRAEUS - GREECE

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113 /4 /5
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04


Mohammed Ghani ---21/05/2015 13:13:43---Dear Experts, Can any one suggest if Groove welding WPS will also allow welding with

From: Mohammed Ghani <ghani386@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: 21/05/2015 13:13
Subject: [MW:23002] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.
Sent by: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

---

Dear Experts, 

Can any one suggest if Groove welding WPS will also allow welding with fillet. please guide with reference standard clause.

--
Thanks and Regards, ?

Mohammed Ghani,

CSWIP 3.1 / BGAS L-2 / ISO 9001:2008 QMS LA.

Mechanical Inspector,
BUREAU VERITAS.


ü Please consider the environment before printing this email.
 "Be the change you wish to see in the world"
---Mahatma Gandhi---

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International Welding Engineer

 

Tel.: +98 21 66282127

Fax: +98 21 66282779

Mob.:+98 912 1394023

 

 

 

 

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Re: [MW:23030] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

Dear

WPS is restricted to what for it is written, some of the WPS written for fillet, Groove,  fillet + Groove 

These are based on Limitation by Qualified PQR 

For your query

what is the reference code for PQR qualification , with that code if the PQR limitations allow to use for both just rewriting the WPS  as per your requirement with PQR limitation will serve you

Regards

M.Sathiyanarayanan

 

On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 7:42 AM, meisam shokri arfaei <meisamshokri@gmail.com> wrote:

I Think that the question was about welding and not about qualification.

Whenever a WPS (whether Standard, pre-qualified or qualified) prepared, the manufacturer allow to use it only with values or in the range which mentioned in that WPS.

The qualification has a different story. One or more WPS's may qualified with single PQR (or number of PQR's which are less than the number of WPS's and in some cases one PQR for each WPS) under the criteria and qualification rules of the design and/or qualification code. 

So, in summary, if you have a WPS for welding a groove weld, you allowed to use it just for that. For a fillet weld you should prepare a new WPS. however both may qualified with a single WPS.

Regards

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:41 AM, anosh wankhade <anosh_wankhade@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Agreed with Dr. Georgious,

This is listed as non essential Variable in ASME section IX.

Please refer QW : 4.2.30 

Regards,

Anosh Wankhade

From: george.dilintas@gr.bureauveritas.com
Sent: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:54:53
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:23005] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.

When ASME is the Code, yes
This is not the case for EN 15614-1

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS PIRAEUS - GREECE

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113 /4 /5
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04


Mohammed Ghani ---21/05/2015 13:13:43---Dear Experts, Can any one suggest if Groove welding WPS will also allow welding with

From: Mohammed Ghani <ghani386@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: 21/05/2015 13:13
Subject: [MW:23002] WPS with groove welding will also qualify Fillet welding.
Sent by: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

---

Dear Experts, 

Can any one suggest if Groove welding WPS will also allow welding with fillet. please guide with reference standard clause.

--
Thanks and Regards, ?

Mohammed Ghani,

CSWIP 3.1 / BGAS L-2 / ISO 9001:2008 QMS LA.

Mechanical Inspector,
BUREAU VERITAS.


ü Please consider the environment before printing this email.
 "Be the change you wish to see in the world"
---Mahatma Gandhi---

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Fax: +98 21 66282779

Mob.:+98 912 1394023

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