Materials & Welding: RE: [MW:22616] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..

Monday, December 22, 2014

RE: [MW:22616] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..

Hello Sir,

Sorry for diverting the subject from Welder qualification to Production welding.
Can you please put light on below question –

Consider a situation where Fatigue Grinding is required on production welding. The joint is visual and NDT Tested and accepted with all examination.

However during grinding due to poor grinding skill, it is excavated more than requirement and results in lesser wall thickness.

Is this case shall be consider as "repair welding"? Or welding parameter as per original WPS are allowed to be used for welding three new bead and meet the required wall thickness.

Pipe Wall thickness is 24.4mm,

Best regards,
Vijay Tayade
Welding Engineer | Materials Technology
Aker Solutions

Tel: +91 20 6691 8929 (60 18929) | Mob: +91 9960599789
vijay.tayade@akersolutions.com | www.akersolutions.com

Aker Powergas Subsea Pvt Ltd
Visiting address: IT-2 Blue Ridge SEZ, Hinjewadi, 411057 Pune, India
Registered in India, CIN : U74990MH2010PTC210736

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of george.dilintas@gr.bureauveritas.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 7:52 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MW:22447] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..

Generally we consider as repair any intervention after final V.I / NDE.
If the welder himself is "adjusting" the weld appearance, this is not considered a repair

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS HELLAS

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113/4
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04
(See attached file: Dilintas_George.vcf)

---03/12/2014 05:44:37---Hello Nandesh, Continuing the subject, you mention that -

From: <Vijay.Tayade@akersolutions.com>
To: <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Date: 03/12/2014 05:44
Subject: RE: [MW:22436] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..
Sent by: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

Hello Nandesh,

Continuing the subject, you mention that -

Filing a completed weld for good visual appearance, is not a problem, I think.

Consider a situation where Fatigue Grinding is required on production welding. The joint is visual and NDT Tested and accepted with all examination.

However during grinding due to poor grinding skill, it is excavated more than requirement and results in lesser wall thickness.

Is this case shall be consider as "repair welding" There is no issue with the welding however it is now require to be "re-weld" or refill of cap.

Provide your view.

Best regards,
Vijay Tayade
Welding Engineer | Materials Technology
Aker Solutions

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nandesh Kumar
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:34 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:16356] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..

ASME Sec IX do not address this issue.

As far as I know, the only code which allows grinding of completed welds is AWS D1.5 - 2002 (Bridge Welding Code) See Clause 3.2.2.1, 2nd para, Point # 4.
(4) grinding the completed weld smooth and flush with the adjacent surface
to produce a workmanlike finish (see 3.6.3).

Further, 3.6.3 says : Unless otherwise approved by the Engineer, all reinforcement
shall be removed where the weld forms a part of a faying surface. Any reinforcement shall blend smoothly into the plate surfaces with transition areas free from weld edge
undercut. Chipping may be used, provided it is followed by grinding.

IMO, grinding of the completed welds should be applicable only for ( including as suggested by C Sridhar) removing sharp notches, bulbous contours, overlaps only with prior approval and presence of concerned Inspector/Engineer, especially qualification welds.

No welder should be allowed to grind the completed welds on their own, as they make it mess sometimes. I have seen welders try to "remove" external undercuts by grinding the base metal and bringing it to the level of surface of undercut, which may reduce the minimum specified wall thickness of the base metal.

Filing a completed weld for good visual appearance, is not a problem, I think.

I'm also waiting for opinion of the experts of this forum.

ವಂದನೆಗಳೊಂದಿಗೆ / Best regards,

Nandesh Kumar A

Abu Dhabi, UAE

P.S. : Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

--- On Thu, 27/12/12, c sridhar <sridhar305@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: c sridhar <sridhar305@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:16353] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..
To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 27 December, 2012, 4:43 PM

Mr. Sathis kumar,

Codes do not specify about the grinding & filling, on not only final but even in filler passes. It is the discrepancy

of the Inspection authority who witnesses the test. Some allow it while few do not. They feel it is lack of skill on the part of the welder concerned if he is allowed to grind such surface defect.

But, it need not be a fact. Say if it is a surface pore due to sudden breeze or to other reasons where welder is not at fault, he takes the Inspector into confidence to remove such defects by grinding or other means. So it is a selective thinking.

More attention is given in initial visual inspection for root defects like. LP, LF, UC, Ex. Penetration , Oxidation (in TIG process), Cavities, under flush etc., than on surface defects on cap runs.

Sridhar.

From: Sathish Kumar <sathishbemech@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2012 2:37 PM
Subject: [MW:16349] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..

Dear Experts,
Please advice.
whether Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for Welder performance qualification test (WPQT) for Plate or Pipe. Since qualification is done based on ASME Sec 9, so i need reference only as per ASME Sec 9.
Also already i referred ASME Sec 9 - QW194, which only mentions the Complete joint penetration for visual examination for WPQT. But it is not more specific in case of Grinding or filling and also some other (acceptable limits ? )parameters like Reinforcement, undercut, underfill etc..
I need only Asme Sec 9 reference, because as per the project contract only Asme Sec 9 is applicable for our project in case of WPQT.
please advice guys..

Thanks in advance..

Regards
sathish. K
Welding inspector.
Jubail, Saudi arabia.

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Materials & Welding

Monday, December 22, 2014

RE: [MW:22616] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..

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