Dear Sevak,
I'm in agree with you about some confusing parts in this standard.
About transfering test results from certificate to another one, the standard declare that each test result from each certificate will be useful for the same certificate e.g. from 3.1 to 3.1 or from 3.2 to 3.2.
Also about the scop I think the most confusing part is the example of prducts which provided in the parenthesis; "(e.g. plate, sheet, bars, forgings, castings)". Please note that before this exapmple the standard says: "... for the delivery of all metallic products..." and I think logically the text must be preferable in comparison with the example of the standard.
From the other side the term "metallic products" is more general and if the authur intended to limit the standard, he/she could use the term "raw material" insted of "all metallic products".
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 11:12 AM, sevak hiren <hirensevak80@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes Mr.meisam shokri arfaei ,Part 4.2 of EN10204:2004 says:It shall be permissible for the manufacturer to transfer on to the inspection certificate 3.2 relevant test results obtained by specific inspection on primary or incoming products he uses, provided that the manufacturer operates traceability producers and can provide the corresponding ispection documents required.This sentance is bit confusing..........also the below clause of specific inspection is also a bit confusing...2.2 - specific inspection:
inspection carried out, before delivery, according to the product specification, on the products to be supplied or on test units of which the products supplied are part, in order to verify that these products are in compliance with the requirements of the order.
it may be applicable to for example a forged product is being made by using a round bar, in that case it may be permissible for manufacturer to transfer the chemical test results of that round bar to final forged rpoduct.But, if you take an example of Valve,See that the casting parts may be made by valve manufacture according to 3.2 certificate, it is ok so far.But, the other parts of a valve like, nut bolts or gasket or non metalic sealings etc. are being procured from the different manufacturers according to 3.1 certificate, How this product can be certify as a whole 3.2 certificate for a complete valve ?If you see the scope of both the EN 10204 & EN 10168, it is limited to raw materials only, at the end of all I think any standard one may follow, but finally the defined scope sumarrise the applicability.
On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 10:51 AM, meisam shokri arfaei <meisamshokri@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sevak,Part 4.2 of EN10204:2004 says:It shall be permissible for the manufacturer to transfer on to the inspection certificate 3.2 relevant test results obtained by specific inspection on primary or incoming products he uses, provided that the manufacturer operates traceability producers and can provide the corresponding ispection documents required.From the above part and also "incoming products he uses" I think this standard will not be limited to raw materials. In case of raw materials what do you think about "incoming products"?
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 1:48 PM, sevak hiren <hirensevak80@gmail.com> wrote:
Many people think that EN 10204 only covers the type of inspection reports.But they overlook that it is only valid for metallic products/materials and the corresponding manufactures of these materials. Please read EN 10204 again and have a look on the definitions of manufacturer and material.EN 10204 is only applicable for metallic products. A metallic product is not a valve / any assembled product, but - as written in EN 10204 - metal sheets, bars, forgings and castings. EN 10204 can also be used for non-metallic products but it is in any case related to raw materials only.On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Shashank Vagal <nach_sam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gents,
In case of assembled products an MDR from the manufacturer incorporating MTCs for components used can be the acceptable mode of certification.
Best regards,
Shashank Vagal
--- On Wed, 18/7/12, meisam shokri arfaei <meisamshokri@gmail.com> wrote:
From: meisam shokri arfaei <meisamshokri@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:14890] EN 10204 - 3.2 Certificate for Assembled product
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 18 July, 2012, 5:30 PM
Dear SevakI don't know why you think so, but basically certificate type 3.2 can be use for both row materials and assembled products. Please have a look on part 4.2 of the EN 10204-2004. There mentioned that manufacturer can uses the test results in the 3.2 certificate of his row material directly (without any new test) in the 3.2 certificate of his product.RegardsOn Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:05 AM, sevak hiren <hirensevak80@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Experts,EN 10204 Type 3.2 Certificate is applicable to non-metalic & metalic products like plates, sheets, bars, forgings, castings etc. (Applicable to raw material products only)So, this type of certificate can not be issued for complete assembled products like Valve, Pump, any machine etc.Please let me know your views.--
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M. Shokri ArfaeiInternational Welding Engineer (IWE)ASNT NDT Level IIIERI Metallurgy Lab. ManagerTel: +98-21-66282127Fax: +98-21-66282779Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. BeGreen!
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M. Shokri ArfaeiInternational Welding Engineer (IWE)ASNT NDT Level IIIERI Metallurgy Lab. ManagerTel: +98-21-66282127Fax: +98-21-66282779Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. BeGreen!
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M. Shokri Arfaei
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ASNT NDT Level III
ERI Metallurgy Lab. Manager
Tel: +98-21-66282127
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