[MW:23935] Re: Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

This bulging is due to restricted movement of the parts being post weld heated during PWHT .
Due to restraints at the end of the  pipes, the bulging might have taken place.
Also pl note  that PWHT temperature is a bit high ie 750 - 760 Deg C for GR 91   as compare of GR 22 , GR 11 ETC

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 2:07:20 PM UTC+5:30, pradipsil wrote:

Dear Expert,

In P91 Material ( HRSG header Joint ) after pwht one joint is bulge.We did  Preheating ,Welding , Post Heating,& PWHT in proper way.

Can anybody explain why this bulge occurs & remedy.

During fit-up inspection & weld visual inspection all round the joint is perfect but after PWHT pipe is bulge 140 mm away from the   weld ment

Pic Attached

Regards,

Pradip

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[MW:23935] Re: tensien test

if the breaking  tensile strength is more than the base metal, then no problem
In PQR , write that "Fracture in Weld "
that's all

On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 9:43:31 AM UTC+5:30, ahmed boh wrote:

Hi,

I am working in pipeline project API1104.

I heve one speciemen breaks on the weld in tension test for mechanized welding operator with filler metal and the tension strength was greater the SMTS.

 pls advise what we should do in this case?

ahmed

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[MW:23935] Niobium in SA 516 GR 70 PLATE

Dear Experts ,

We intend to use SA 516 GR 70 plate - (thickness ranging from  55mm to 100 mm)  for   steam boiler application.
We are getting plates with Niobium content of 0.04 %.
As per SA 20   corresponding table ,the maximum limit for Nb  is 0.02 %
How ever , in the notes of the said Table  the Nb can be increased
What is effect of increase,  in Nb element on boiler drum shell rolling and  welding

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[MW:23934] A 106 Gr B microstructure

Dear experts

Can anyone send me the microstructure for A 106 Gr B. I have to prepar a mini projet of the welding of this material.

Cordialement

Envoyé depuis un mobile Samsung

Re: [MW:23933] Re: Allowable Tube Wall Reduction Tube-to-Tubesheet Joints expended in 2 grooves and seal welded

Dear Mr. Pushpraj,

Since ASME & TEMA does not specifiy tube wall thickness reduction limit, for C.S. materials 8-10% thinning is recommended as per Good Engg. Practice and reputed PMC spec.

Thanks & regards,

C. R. GANDHI

---

From: Madhan S <madhan0890@gmail.com>
To: Materials & Welding <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 9:11 AM
Subject: [MW:23889] Re: Allowable Tube Wall Reduction Tube-to-Tubesheet Joints expended in 2 grooves and seal welded

Dear Pushpraj

Formula for tube expansion, D=d+e+t

D- Tube ID after expansion.

d- Tube ID before expansion.

e- Clearance between tube OD and Plate ID

t- Applied Diameter expansion is 0.6 mm. (0..6mm Use can change depending on your groove depth.)

In your case you have seal welding also. So Don't worry for leakage.

With Regards,

Madhan. S

On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 7:54:08 AM UTC+3, Anand wrote:

Dear experts

 Please let me know the Allowable Tube Wall Reduction Tube-to-Tubesheet Joints expended in 2 grooves and seal welded 

Tube is SA179 ,20 mm OD & 2 mm thick

Tube sheet SA299 Gr B , 20.20 +_ 0.05 mm hole dia with 2 grooves inside the hole 

Please also share the applicable clause of TEMA or ASME stand.

Regards

Pushpraj Anand

  

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[MW:23932] Impact test thickness limit as per API 1104.

Dear all,

We know that as per asme, when impact applicable clause 403.6 use for thickness limitation.

I hve wps with 4.8mm to 19mm
Mat api 5l x52.
without impact test.

For another project there is impact requirement.
Wd conduxt impact test and accepted.

Now is there change in thk range.?

I dint found in api 1104.

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Re: [MW:23928] Tensile testing

Dear Mr. Alan

 Thermo-mechanical controlled processed micro allying steel resist the dislocation motion for certain period of time but shows the Luders band of yeild point in very short area. 

Recently, new methods have been started to be used for investigation of plastic flow of metals such as thermography please see the attachement of ;

1) Influence of Niobium on the Beginning of the Plastic Flow of Material during Cold Deformation.

 

2) For reference 3% Ni steel -Normalised+ Acc. Cooled+ Tempered.( Its shows the Yeild point)

Please clarify your suggestion

On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 1:32:48 PM UTC+3, alan wrote:

I have to comment, since  I do not agree that 'the yield point is observed in all carbon steel material'  [but it may depend on what you consider to be a carbon steel]. That statement is probably true for as-rolled and normalised carbon steels but, notably, the TMCP [thermo-mechanical controlled processed] steels which are carbon-manganese micro-alloyed steels and widely used for structures and pipelines do not generally show a distinctive yield point.

Alan Denney
AKD Materials Consulting Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pravin Nimbalkar
Sent: 16 November 2015 07:14
To: Materials & Welding <material...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:23883] Tensile testing

Definitely

construct a straight line parallel to the initial linear portion of the stress-strain curve, but offset from it by e = 0.002 (0.2%.) The yield strength is taken as the stress level at which this straight line intersects the stress–strain curve.

Generally the yield point is observed in all carbon steel material.
The reason behind yield point is Cottrell atmosphere. Its related to how dislocation pinned in mild steel metals by carbon and nitrogen interstitials. These atoms distort the lattice shortly and there will be associated residual stress field surrounding the interstitials. This stress field relaxed by interestitail atoms diffusing towords dislocation. Once the dislocation has become pinned a small extra force is required to unpinn and the dislocation prior the yielding and produce upper yield point in stress-strain strain diagram. After unpinning dislocation are free to move in Crystal which results means lower yield point and material will deform in more plastic manner.

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Re: [MW:23928] Jacket piping

Yes,

We will get reducing flanges, in sulfur lines we will be using and in chilled water/brine water jacketing also used.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:17 PM, PRASANTH RAJAN <prasanthgalfar@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear experts    

  Is it possible for welding of jacket outer pipe on the  the inner pipe flange , its there any standard that allow the welding of pipe in forged material

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WITH REGARDS
 
*PRASANTH RAJAN*
*MECHANICAL SUPERVISOR*
*GALFAR ENGINEERING EMIRATES*
*prasanthgalfar@gmail.com* <prasanthgalfar@gmail.com>
 

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Re: [MW:23928] Jacket piping

Yes it is, the flanges are to be prepared accordingly.

---

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> on behalf of PRASANTH RAJAN <prasanthgalfar@gmail.com>
Sent: 25 November 2015 07:17
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:23926] Jacket piping

 

Dear experts    

  Is it possible for welding of jacket outer pipe on the  the inner pipe flange , its there any standard that allow the welding of pipe in forged material

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WITH REGARDS
 
*PRASANTH RAJAN*
*MECHANICAL SUPERVISOR*
*GALFAR ENGINEERING EMIRATES*
*prasanthgalfar@gmail.com* <prasanthgalfar@gmail.com>
 

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Re: [MW:23928] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

Dear Sir,

I already discussed with heat Treater regarding this matter & found thermocouple is placed in the middle so there is no overheating Chances.  Thermocouple Photo Attached.

We have Thermocouple & recorder calibration certificate.

Regarding the question of overheating/Overlapped the Heating band...... the joint is painted there is no color difference of the particular area of the heating band/ Bulge Area. Although machine will show that if it is overheated.

My question is all spool ( Eight Nos & each spool has two nos of joint ) is a common header ( Header weight is 6,3 Ton) downside is locked in the another header. Is it possible there is no expansion area of the joint & so the pipe is expanded at side ? 

Regards,

Pradip

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:48 AM, pgoswami <pgoswami@quickclic.net> wrote:

Pradip,

 

Something definitely had gone wrong with the PWHT process causing the headers to bulge. I've tried to put all of your back and forth correspondence in one place. The root cause analysis looks to me are as follows:-

 

• The PWHT temperature is not very clear, but something in the vicinity of 760-780 Deg C and of 2hrs of soaking time for ½" wall thickness is high.
• Please follow Sec-I guidelines (as below)
• The PWHT chart should be very clear. It's not clear from the PWHT chart what was the temperature adopted vs the soaking time .Needs to be specified in the chart
• I'm not sure, but from the hand drawn sketch, it looks two heating pads were overlapped. If so it definitely would add to overheating .
• It's not a mandatory requirement. However   as per D-10.10 it's advisable to place additional thermocouples in the soaking and heating zone to monitor PWHT temperature accurately. This is required for CSEF steels such as Grade -91 Or else over tempering would destroy the Creep Resistance of this steel.
• I would think one needs to discuss these issues upfront with the heat treaters, then approve the PWHT procedure and monitor well in the field.

 

I hope the attached information would help you.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pradip Goswami, P.Eng,IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Engineering Specialist
Ontario,Canada.
ca.linkedin.com/pub/pradip-goswami/5/985/299

pgoswami@quickclic.net

pradip.goswami@gmail.com

All provided answer are personal opinions or personal judgements only. It's not connected with any employers by any means. 

 

 

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Subject: Re: [MW:23914] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

 

Dear Dennis,

Pls find the PWHT chart & in 10" we used two nos of thermocouple with equal distance i.e 180 degree. We checked the hardness in the weldment as well as HAZ zone & found 210 to 238 HB (This is fine)  but in bulge zone ( Parent Material ) which is 140 mm away from weldment is coming 155 to 175 HB.—Over tempered, Poor Creep Strength

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Pradip

 

 

Dear Mr. Rems, Bulge happened just outside PWHT heat band. Pipe thickness is 12.70mm & did soaking 2 hrs. I already attached Time temp. chart. Header has eight nos of pipe but during PWHT only two pipes are bulge. Thanks & Regards, Pradip   From: pradip kumar Sil Sent: Τρίτη, 24 Νοεμβρίου 2015 - 12:42 To: materials-welding Reply To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:23914] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

 

It is not possible to do PWHT horizontally because spool piece is welded at location

 

 

 

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:26 PM, pradip kumar Sil <pradipsil@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Expert,

In P91 Material ( HRSG header Joint ) after pwht one joint is bulge.We did  Preheating ,Welding , Post Heating,& PWHT in proper way.

Can anybody explain why this bulge occurs & remedy.

During fit-up inspection & weld visual inspection all round the joint is perfect but after PWHT pipe is bulge 140 mm away from the   weld ment

Pic Attached

Regards,

Pradip

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RE: [MW:23927] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

Pradip,

 

Something definitely had gone wrong with the PWHT process causing the headers to bulge. I’ve tried to put all of your back and forth correspondence in one place. The root cause analysis looks to me are as follows:-

 

• The PWHT temperature is not very clear, but something in the vicinity of 760-780 Deg C and of 2hrs of soaking time for ½” wall thickness is high.
• Please follow Sec-I guidelines (as below)
• The PWHT chart should be very clear. It’s not clear from the PWHT chart what was the temperature adopted vs the soaking time .Needs to be specified in the chart
• I’m not sure, but from the hand drawn sketch, it looks two heating pads were overlapped. If so it definitely would add to overheating .
• It’s not a mandatory requirement. However   as per D-10.10 it’s advisable to place additional thermocouples in the soaking and heating zone to monitor PWHT temperature accurately. This is required for CSEF steels such as Grade -91 Or else over tempering would destroy the Creep Resistance of this steel.
• I would think one needs to discuss these issues upfront with the heat treaters, then approve the PWHT procedure and monitor well in the field.

 

I hope the attached information would help you.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pradip Goswami, P.Eng,IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Engineering Specialist
Ontario,Canada.
ca.linkedin.com/pub/pradip-goswami/5/985/299

pgoswami@quickclic.net

pradip.goswami@gmail.com

All provided answer are personal opinions or personal judgements only. It's not connected with any employers by any means. 

 

 

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Subject: Re: [MW:23914] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

 

Dear Dennis,

Pls find the PWHT chart & in 10" we used two nos of thermocouple with equal distance i.e 180 degree. We checked the hardness in the weldment as well as HAZ zone & found 210 to 238 HB (This is fine)  but in bulge zone ( Parent Material ) which is 140 mm away from weldment is coming 155 to 175 HB.—Over tempered, Poor Creep Strength

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Pradip

 

 

Dear Mr. Rems, Bulge happened just outside PWHT heat band. Pipe thickness is 12.70mm & did soaking 2 hrs. I already attached Time temp. chart. Header has eight nos of pipe but during PWHT only two pipes are bulge. Thanks & Regards, Pradip   From: pradip kumar Sil Sent: Τρίτη, 24 Νοεμβρίου 2015 - 12:42 To: materials-welding Reply To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:23914] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

 

It is not possible to do PWHT horizontally because spool piece is welded at location

 

 

 

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:26 PM, pradip kumar Sil <pradipsil@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Expert,

In P91 Material ( HRSG header Joint ) after pwht one joint is bulge.We did  Preheating ,Welding , Post Heating,& PWHT in proper way.

Can anybody explain why this bulge occurs & remedy.

During fit-up inspection & weld visual inspection all round the joint is perfect but after PWHT pipe is bulge 140 mm away from the   weld ment

Pic Attached

Regards,

Pradip

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AIB- Vincotte International & Partners LLC

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[MW:23926] Jacket piping

Dear experts    

  Is it possible for welding of jacket outer pipe on the  the inner pipe flange , its there any standard that allow the welding of pipe in forged material

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*PRASANTH RAJAN*
*MECHANICAL SUPERVISOR*
*GALFAR ENGINEERING EMIRATES*
*prasanthgalfar@gmail.com* <prasanthgalfar@gmail.com>
 

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Re: [MW:23925] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

How we will calculate allowable stress the stress value at the PwhT temperature by using Euler Case

On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 11:58 AM, <george.dilintas@gr.bureauveritas.com> wrote:

Why you do not perform a calculation using as allowable stress the stress value at the PwhT temperature? Consider the Euler case which is closer to your configuration

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: pradip kumar Sil Sent: Τρίτη, 24 Νοεμβρίου 2015 - 12:42 To: materials-welding Reply To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:23914] Bulge P-91 Pipe after PWHT

It is not possible to do PWHT horizontally because spool piece is welded at location

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 3:25 PM, VHEER RAJHU <rajuveera2011@gmail.com> wrote:

Mr shanmugan,

Job is kept in vertical condition where and when the job is heated locally the material softens  at that particular area where all the weight of the job is acted on that softened area which leads to bulging locally

Preferred to do PWHT HORIZONTALLY

On 24 Nov 2015 14:46, "shanmuganathan .subbiah" <shanmuganathan.subbiah@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear 

Both end closed or not during PWHT?

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 12:26 PM, pradip kumar Sil <pradipsil@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Expert,

In P91 Material ( HRSG header Joint ) after pwht one joint is bulge.We did  Preheating ,Welding , Post Heating,& PWHT in proper way.

Can anybody explain why this bulge occurs & remedy.

During fit-up inspection & weld visual inspection all round the joint is perfect but after PWHT pipe is bulge 140 mm away from the   weld ment

Pic Attached

Regards,

Pradip

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