Materials & Welding: December 2012

Monday, December 31, 2012

Re: [MW:16396] Stress Relieving heat treatment of Monel 400

Mr.Sanjay,

Welded MONEL alloy 400 components normally go into service as welded. If there is a concern that the
environment could induce stress corrosion cracking (e.g, steam containing ammonia), the structure could
be stress relieved by heat treatment at 620 ⁰C to 760 ⁰ C. It could be done by using LPG pumping,
Electrical Resistance heating, Furnace etc.

Sridhar.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rajagopal Kannan <rajagopal.kannan@gmail.com>
To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2012 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:16392] Stress Relieving heat treatment of Monel 400

Dear Sanjay,

As per UNF 56 of ASME sec. VIII Div.1, UNS N 04400 is not required to be Post Weld Heat treated.

Thanks and Best Regards,

K.Rajagopal

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Sanjay Gandhi <sanjayseju88@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Has any body come across requirement of PWHT or stress relieving for Monel 400? I have read some where that Monel 400 material that is to be used in HF acid service, welds must be given stress reliving treatment to minimize the risk of stress corrosion cracking.

I am looking for following information.

1.) Whether post weld heat treatment is necessary for welds of Monel 400 operating in HF service. Any precedence of heat treatment or no heat treatment?

2.) If heat treatment is inevitable, how to carry out heat treatment of complete vessel? Conventional way by heating or any new technique, any specific furnace, any inert gas to be used, etc…

3.) Any cleaning treatment required after heat treatment? What is the effective method of cleaning?

I would highly appreciate your inputs on the above. We have got two Monel 400 vessels to be used in HF services.

Regards,

Sanjay Gandhi
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Re: [MW:16397] Effect of a little amount of Excessive Sulfur in P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003)

Additional Sulphur to an extent of O.001 present should not create problem for your operational temperature
as the additional Mn available in the base metal. will neutralize the Sulphur in the form of Manganese Sulphide.

If Oxygen & Sulphur if added in a fracture of volume more , it may create low impact properties at higher temp.

For example,
for CVN impact at -100 deg.C, (E 8018-C2) Sulphur is controlled within 0.02 max.
for CVN impact at -60 deg.C, (E 8018-C1) & at -50 deg. C ( E 8018-C3), Sulphur is controlled within 0.025 max.

Since your operation is at -7 deg. C, in my opinion, it should not create any problems.

Apart from impact, higher volumes of Sulphur form low melting eutectics with Nickel to create hot cracking
and also reduces tensile properties if not controlled.

All other elements present other than C, Mn, Si are trace elements. It is

Sridhar.

From: M2M <hyperm2m@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: [MW:16389] Effect of a little amount of Excessive Sulfur in P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003)

Dear All

I test a specimen of P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003).but there is a problem in chemical composition.

As per BS EN 10028-3(2003) max sulfur(S) limited to 0.01. we can ignore ± 0.003 as permissible deviation.

Below table is my material 's chemical analyze. As you can see sulfur is 0.014.

with consideration of ± 0.003 as permissible deviation , just it is 0.001 exceeded.

I need to know what is effect of this little deviation( in sulfur) in mechanical properties of this material???

Does it have a big effect ???

I want to use my material in LPG tank(operation temp. is -7c).is it important or I can ignore this 0.001 sulfur????

Best Regards,

M2M

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[MW:16394] Material properties or equivalent material

Dear Sir,

I am looking for following material for Russian Make Pump.

In the drawings provided to us below material is mention.

1. Steel 40 X (IS 1570 -40)

2. Steel 25

3. Chromium steel 32 RC

Can any one give me material properties or equivalent material?

Thanks,

AniL

India: +91 9769397758

Oman: +968 92782862

Re: [MW:16395] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Many thanks,

The issue is to verify the overlap itself between some bottom plates, since the owner has some doubts and wants to know if the 5 times the bottom plates thickness is there.

BR

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2012, at 8:02 AM, "amit sunaria" <amit_sunaria@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Dear friend,

You can use Vacuum Box Test Method for Overlap weld joints.

Thanks & Regards,

Amit,
Inspection Engineer,
ABSIV,Bhogat Terminal,
Jamnagar,Gujarat.

From: Lassaad <lassaad.mokrani@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 09:38:54
To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [MW:16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP
Dear Experts,
Is there any NDT method to check the overlap of bottom plates of an API650 built and used Oil steel tank.?
Many thanks
BR

Sent from my iPad

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[MW:16393] high presssure pipe welidng as per ASME B 31.3, Chapter. IX requirements

Dear Experts,

Wish you and your family happy new year 2012.

We have source LTCS seamless pipe and flange of 108mm thickness as per the requireemnts given below. Is it possible to get seamless pipe A 333 Gr. 6 of 108mm thickness. If so pelase give details and also pelase share your expereince in welding of such high thickness jobs as per the requireemnts of Chapter Ix B 31.3.

WPS, Welder and NDT Qualification for High Pressure Piping (ASME B31.3, Chapter IX)

Design Code: ASME B31.3, Chapter IX (2010)

Scope of work: 1. Procuring the material as per the attached material datasheet.

2. Carryout Chemical and HIC tests (as per SP 2041 acceptance criteria: Region 3 service) on the procured material

3. Submit proposed WPS (PWPS) for project team approval

4. Cutting and welding the test coupon as per approved PWPS.

5. Carrying out PWHT, NDT, Mechanical tests as per approved PWPS and ASME B31.3, Chapter IX.

6. Submit NDT procedure, technique sheets for PDO approval.

7. NDT technicians shall be approved by PDO

Data Sheet

Description		Specified
Design Code	ASME B 31.3, Chapter IX (2010)
Dimensional spec	ASME B36.10
Service	GAS - HIGH SOUR, ONSHORE
Design Pressure	495 bar g
Min. Design Temperature	MINUS 50°C
Max. Design Temperature	PLUS 180°C
Mat	CARBON STEEL FINE GRAINED
Mat, spec	ASTM A333 GR 6
Material Technical Spec.	NACE MR 01-75/ISO 15156
Manufacturing process	SEAMLESS

End Preparation	Beveled, ASME B16.25
Inspection, certificate	ISO 10474 -3.1C

Notes:

1. Pipe wall thickness is calculated based on ASME B 31.3, Chapter IX, clause K 304.1.2.

2. Manufacture and supply of pipe shall be in accordance with ASTM A333 GR.6 and this specification.

3. Impact testing shall meet the requirement of ASME B31.3, Chapter IX, clause K 323.3.1

4. 100% ultrasonic examination as per ASME B 31.3, Chapter IX, clause K 305.1.2

5. All pipes shall be procured from PDO approved vendor.

MESC No.	Piping Class	Size DN	Wall Thickness
743016711X	1001503P1	600	108mm

Regards

VENKAT

Re: [MW:16392] Stress Relieving heat treatment of Monel 400

Dear Sanjay,

As per UNF 56 of ASME sec. VIII Div.1, UNS N 04400 is not required to be Post Weld Heat treated.

Thanks and Best Regards,

K.Rajagopal

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Sanjay Gandhi <sanjayseju88@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Has any body come across requirement of PWHT or stress relieving for Monel 400? I have read some where that Monel 400 material that is to be used in HF acid service, welds must be given stress reliving treatment to minimize the risk of stress corrosion cracking.

I am looking for following information.

1.) Whether post weld heat treatment is necessary for welds of Monel 400 operating in HF service. Any precedence of heat treatment or no heat treatment?

2.) If heat treatment is inevitable, how to carry out heat treatment of complete vessel? Conventional way by heating or any new technique, any specific furnace, any inert gas to be used, etc…

3.) Any cleaning treatment required after heat treatment? What is the effective method of cleaning?

I would highly appreciate your inputs on the above. We have got two Monel 400 vessels to be used in HF services.

Regards,

Sanjay Gandhi

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Re: [MW:16391] Vacuum Packed LH Electrodes

Mr. Abhisekh,

" After opening packet at the start of the days work , is it necessary to transfer a pack of electrodes to a portable quiver for holding

at temp 100 deg C to prevent further moisture pick up ? or it is not required as manufacturer says that after opening up to 9 hrs it can be used at 80% / 27 deg C .

Electrodes rebaking cycle depends upon which factors? Some client specifies recycling 1 time , some 2 times ... [ As per BIS 13851:1993 , ( R 2006) - Storage & redrying of coverd electrodes before use recommendations- 3 times ] "

Answer:

The very purpose of using E 7018-1 H4 type Vacuum packed Electrodes is to avoid re-backing, as the H2 level is

<4 ml /100 grams of weld and can be used straight after opening the pack.

When not used after breaking the seal and considerable gap of time, re-baking is to be done, as the electrodes would

have picked up moisture by then, due to its exposure to humid conditions.

Without H-4 designation, all low Hydrogen type electrodes may have > 10 ml & < 15 ml of H2 per 100 grams of weld and compulsory re-drying has to be done to reduce the H2 content to <10 ml. by holding them at 300 deg. C for 2 hrs

in the ovens.

The electrodes are held in Holding oven (if required) at 100-150 deg.C, if backed in large quantity and to avoid repeated

re-baking (re-cycling) and damage to flux coating if unused.

Welders are supposed to use portable (kept at 100 deg. C or so) for actual welding. These ovens also know as re-fill ovens

as the electrodes are refilled after every 2 hrs welding work or less.

Sridhar.

From: ABHISHEK GHOSH <ghoshabhishekmech@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012 11:17 AM
Subject: [MW:16383] Vacuum Packed LH Electrodes

Dear Experts,

We are using E 7018-1 H4 Vacuum packed Electrodes for our project. ( Refer attachments ) , where manufacturer recommendations is mentioned as :

HD [ ml/100g] : at opening time : <5

Working time after opening : 9h at 80% RH / 27 deg C

After this period rebaking : 2h/340-360 deg C

Brand : Supercito VP Medium ,Oerlikon , Air Liquide Wedling France.

Weather Condition at site : 78- 80 % Humidity , Temp 26-30 Deg C.

My question is :

After opening packet at the start of the days work , is it necessary to transfer a pack of electrodes to a portable quiver for holding at temp 100 deg C to prevent further moisture pick up ? or it is not required as manufacturer says that after opening up to 9 hrs it can be used at 80% / 27 deg C .

Electrodes re-baking cycle depends upon which factors? Some client specifies recycling 1 time , some 2 times ... [ As per BIS 13851:1993 , ( R 2006) - Storage & redrying of coverd electrodes before use recommendations- 3 times ]

Please clarify .

Thanks & regards.

Abhishek Ghosh

Indonesia

Linkedin: id.linkedin.com/pub/abhishek-ghosh/15/899/271

[MW:16385] RE: 16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Dear Lassaad

first you should inspected it visually. Specially you pay attention to
important area such as sumps, three-plate laps, arc strikes, temporary
attachment removal areas.
Then All of bottom plate overlaps shall be tested by VBT(vacuum box test).

Also you can see 7.3.3 from API 650(2007).

Best Regards,
Farhang

-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
[mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lassaad
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Dear Experts,
Is there any NDT method to check the overlap of bottom plates of an API650
built and used Oil steel tank.?
Many thanks
BR

Sent from my iPad

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anet_ug_hm

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w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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Re: [MW:16386] Vacuum Packed LH Electrodes

dear friend,

as per my opinion, it must be placed in site quiver at 120C because vaccum pack replaces the requirement of rebaking not holding.

wat manufacturer is written 9 hrs.is regarding max. working time before rebaking requries.

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 8:47 AM, ABHISHEK GHOSH <ghoshabhishekmech@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,

We are using E 7018-1 H4 Vacuum packed Electrodes for our project. ( Refer attachments ) , where manufacturer recommendations is mentioned as :

HD [ ml/100g] : at opening time : <5

Working time after opening : 9h at 80% RH / 27 deg C
After this period rebaking : 2h/340-360 deg C
Brand : Supercito VP Medium ,Oerlikon , Air Liquide Wedling France.
Weather Condition at site : 78- 80 % Humidity , Temp 26-30 Deg C.

My question is :
After opening packet at the start of the days work , is it necessary to transfer a pack of electrodes to a portable quiver for holding at temp 100 deg C to prevent further moisture pick up ? or it is not required as manufacturer says that after opening up to 9 hrs it can be used at 80% / 27 deg C .

Electrodes rebaking cycle depends upon which factors? Some client specifies recycling 1 time , some 2 times ... [ As per BIS 13851:1993 , ( R 2006) - Storage & redrying of coverd electrodes before use recommendations- 3 times ]

Please clarify .

Thanks & regards.

Abhishek Ghosh
Indonesia

Linkedin: id.linkedin.com/pub/abhishek-ghosh/15/899/271

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Re: [MW:16387] welding of alloy 800HT

Dear Pratap.

To my knowledge & experiance:-

1) Effectiveness will be seen in Test results....

It is an Austenitic structure , so Argon purging is required (to de-oxidations)

Answer of query no.1.& 2.

2) You can go for SMAW..(Good practice follows by Temper bead technique with TIG roots , Check Dp after every TIG root.)

3) Yes , Few portion of weld may effect microstructure , u must grind/gauge them properly to reduce/minimse chnces of falures..

4) It is best filler wire for sort of application..

It is also used for joing of Co rich & Nickel Rich Plates (Dis-simaler joints)

5) Interpass temp is strictly maintained to MAX 150 Deg C.

@Dear Experts:- Pls , coorect me , if i am wrong....Also pls elaborate that

This fiiler wire ERNiCrCoMo-1 is or can be used for joining Nickel rich (Min50%) & cobalt rich (Min 50%) metals /plates.pipes

With regards,

Ashish P

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Manindra Singh <hellmanya@in.com> wrote:

Dear all,

we have to weld Alloy 800 HT material for steam methane reformer outlet header using TIG methodology and filler wire ER NiCrCoMo-1 . However, due to access constraint, we are having doubt on effectiveness of argon purging during welding.

It may be noted that after root run of few portion, inner surface of weld was inspected and found to have shiny surface but base metal adjacent to weld bead is having grey color marks.

now the question is:

1. How to check effectiveness of argon gas purging while welding with respect to root weld profile?

2. What kind of problem may come in future, if purging was not proper for weld?

3. Can we apply SMAW welding procedure for complete weld profile ( root, hot, filler and final passes)?

4. Few portion of old weld has been left on inner surface of pipe, whether it will affect the new weld or quality of weld?

5. Is there any other filler wire suitable to weld such kind of material?

6. Effect of interpass temperature ( i.e. 200-250 deg C),if not strictly maintained ?

Thanks and regards,

Pratap

Dear materials-welding ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

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Re: [MW:16388] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Dear friend,

You can use Vacuum Box Test Method for Overlap weld joints.

Thanks & Regards,

Amit,
Inspection Engineer,
ABSIV,Bhogat Terminal,
Jamnagar,Gujarat.

From: Lassaad <lassaad.mokrani@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 09:38:54
To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [MW:16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP
Dear Experts,
Is there any NDT method to check the overlap of bottom plates of an API650 built and used Oil steel tank.?
Many thanks
BR

Sent from my iPad

--
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[MW:16389] Effect of a little amount of Excessive Sulfur in P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003)

Dear All

I test a specimen of P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003).but there is a problem in chemical composition.

As per BS EN 10028-3(2003) max sulfur(S) limited to 0.01. we can ignore ± 0.003 as permissible deviation.

Below table is my material 's chemical analyze. As you can see sulfur is 0.014.

with consideration of ± 0.003 as permissible deviation , just it is 0.001 exceeded.

I need to know what is effect of this little deviation( in sulfur) in mechanical properties of this material???

Does it have a big effect ???

I want to use my material in LPG tank(operation temp. is -7c).is it important or I can ignore this 0.001 sulfur????

Best Regards,

M2M

Re: [MW:16389] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Dear Lassaad

Vaccum box testing is commonly practiced in Botttom plate overlap joint inspection.

Regards

Mohd. Ilyas

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Lassaad <lassaad.mokrani@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,
Is there any NDT method to check the overlap of bottom plates of an API650 built and used Oil steel tank.?
Many thanks
BR

Sent from my iPad

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--
Thanking You
With Best Regards
Mohammed Ilyas Mohiuddin

Sunday, December 30, 2012

[MW:16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Dear Experts,
Is there any NDT method to check the overlap of bottom plates of an API650 built and used Oil steel tank.?
Many thanks
BR

Sent from my iPad

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Re: [MW:16378] Final welding appearance

dear frnd

If dissimilar thickness method 1 correct, if same thickness method 2 is correct

Regards

Vidhyapathi

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 3:59 PM, welding <samirmehta.jnd@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear all,

kindly go through the attached file and advice which one is correct and acceptable method as per the welding standard also provide reference documents.

regards
samir

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[MW:16379] welding of alloy 800HT

Dear all,

we have to weld Alloy 800 HT material for steam methane reformer outlet header using TIG methodology and filler wire ER NiCrCoMo-1 . However, due to access constraint, we are having doubt on effectiveness of argon purging during welding.

It may be noted that after root run of few portion, inner surface of weld was inspected and found to have shiny surface but base metal adjacent to weld bead is having grey color marks.

now the question is:

1. How to check effectiveness of argon gas purging while welding with respect to root weld profile?

2. What kind of problem may come in future, if purging was not proper for weld?

3. Can we apply SMAW welding procedure for complete weld profile ( root, hot, filler and final passes)?

4. Few portion of old weld has been left on inner surface of pipe, whether it will affect the new weld or quality of weld?

5. Is there any other filler wire suitable to weld such kind of material?

6. Effect of interpass temperature ( i.e. 200-250 deg C),if not strictly maintained ?

Thanks and regards,

Pratap

Dear materials-welding ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

Re: [MW:16380] Final welding appearance

Contcat your design department.

Attached is the ASME B31.8 -2010 excerpt:

" Fig. I5 Acceptable Design for Unequal Wall Thickness"

Relevant NOTE: to the figure attached.
(1) No minimum when materials joined have equal specified minimum yield strengths.

ವಂದನೆಗಳೊಂದಿಗೆ / Best regards,

Nandesh Kumar A

Abu Dhabi, UAE

P.S. : Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

--- On Sun, 30/12/12, Samir Mehta <samirmehta.jnd@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Samir Mehta <samirmehta.jnd@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:16376] Final welding appearance
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Sunday, 30 December, 2012, 5:17 AM

Pls find the attached pic. and advice as the spool is hold by quality control dept, they want me to fill the taper area, and i am not agreed cos its not bevel, pls provide some proof.

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:05 PM, sreekanth <forusree99@rediffmail.com> wrote:

sir,

method -1 is correct as per asme sec ix

Regards,
srikkanth

On Sat, 29 Dec 2012 13:37:52 +0530 wrote

>Dear all,
kindly go through the attached file and advice which one is correct and acceptable method as
per the welding standard also provide reference documents.
regardssamir

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Samir Mehta

Engineer - Welding & Projects

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Re: [MW:16381] Filler wire for Aluminium to CS TIG welding

Such type of joint i.e Aluminium # CS is not possible by TIG welding in Heat exchanger.

In automobile industry, Aluminium # CS joints are being done by Friction welding and Friction Stir Welding.

However in such type of joints there are formation of intermetallic phases like FeAl3 which can make the joint brittle and reduce ductility.

Hence such type of joint is not suitable in pressure vessels.

You have to look for alternate design change.

Regards

Prem Nautiyal

--- On Mon, 12/24/12, Ashok Shende <shendeashok08@rediffmail.com> wrote:

From: Ashok Shende <shendeashok08@rediffmail.com>
Subject: [MW:16315] Filler wire for Aluminium to CS TIG welding
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, December 24, 2012, 9:32 AM

Dear experts we are having a project of aluminium heat exchangers with tube side
MOC as aluminium SB 209. Here I want to make confirm the suitable filler wires for
TIG welding of Aluminium to SA 516 GR 60/70. Thanks in advance.

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Materials & Welding

Monday, December 31, 2012

Re: [MW:16396] Stress Relieving heat treatment of Monel 400

Re: [MW:16397] Effect of a little amount of Excessive Sulfur in P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003)

[MW:16394] Material properties or equivalent material

Re: [MW:16395] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

[MW:16393] high presssure pipe welidng as per ASME B 31.3, Chapter. IX requirements

Re: [MW:16392] Stress Relieving heat treatment of Monel 400

Re: [MW:16391] Vacuum Packed LH Electrodes

[MW:16385] RE: 16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Re: [MW:16386] Vacuum Packed LH Electrodes

Re: [MW:16387] welding of alloy 800HT

Re: [MW:16388] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

[MW:16389] Effect of a little amount of Excessive Sulfur in P355NL2(EN BS 10028-3-2003)

Re: [MW:16389] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Sunday, December 30, 2012

[MW:16377] TANK BOTTOM PLATES OVERLAP

Re: [MW:16378] Final welding appearance

[MW:16379] welding of alloy 800HT

Re: [MW:16380] Final welding appearance

Re: [MW:16381] Filler wire for Aluminium to CS TIG welding

[MW:35346] Cast-iron welding

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