Gents,
In addition to Mr. Herman Pieper & Mr Pradip Goswami comments, I would like to add few points.
In Middle East, few reputed clients spec requires, "the PREN of the filler metal, as calculated from the batch test certification, should be at least 2 units higher than the minimum specified for the base material to be welded"
Meeting the above requirement using ER2209 to weld UNS S31803 is always difficult, unless filler metal is procured accordingly. So manufacture directly recommends using ER 2507/ER2594 in place of ER 2209, which is not really appreciated in terms of cost and high amount of intermetallic formation will be there in the weld, which inturn increases the hardness of the weld.
Qualifying UNS S31803 PQRs using ER 2209 filler wire with stringent corrosion test like ASTM G48 Method A, is not that difficult these days, if proper precautions like purging gas selection, heat input control, interpass temp control are made appropriately.
As Mr. Pradip stated, using ER 2594 only for root pass and further passes with ER2209 will work good by having a higher PREN in the root side (i.e. process side in case of process piping/pipeline) and hardness values well within the acceptance limits as required.
Sudhakar K
--Hi Herman & Mohammed,
Certain specifications have very stringent requirements with respect to Corrosion Testing for DSS and SDSS. However there should not be any compelling reason to use SDSS 2594 consumable for the complete joint when the base metal is UNS 31803.
Below are extracts from SAES-W-016:- 2009 Version: Clause
2014 Version same clause is replaced by:-
In fact filler metals for 2507 (ER 2594) could generate more intermetallics than the matching filler for UNS 31803, i.e ER-2209
Attachd is the discussion , which took place in Eng-tips forum,theissue was meeting the pitting corrosion requirements as per SAES-W-016 at the weld root. An advice to use ER 2594 for the root pass followed by ER2209 for the rest was proved to be a success.
Aprpeciate your thoughts.
Thanks.
Pradip Goswami, P.Eng,IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Engineering Specialist ,Ontario,Canada.
ca.linkedin.com/pub/pradip-goswami/5/985/299 H-905-6799677, 905-9631505
C-905-9793232
******************************
****************************** ****************************** ****************************** ****************************** ***************************** Dear Mr. Pradip,
Many thanks for your valuable suggestion and references.
It was suggested by Consumable manufacturer to use Super duplex filler metal as we were unable to pass corrosion test required by SAES-W-016.
Regards,
Mohammed Azharuddin
******************************
****************************** ****************************** ****************************** ****************************** ****************************** ***
From: materials-welding@
googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Pieper QSI
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 7:11 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:25315] RE: 25313] RE: Re: % Ferrite & FN measurements of Duplex Stainless steel welds
Dear Pradip,
I think Mr. Azharuudin is working according to a Shell or Total specification (or other oil company), some of those specifications require Super Duplex Filler metal for the root pass.
Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards,
Herman Pieper
QA-QC Inspector / CSWIP + IWI-C Welding Inspector / IWT / Materials Expert
Job van der Havestraat 6
8384 DB, Wilhelminaoord
Cell: +31 6 51691215
Van: materials-welding@
googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com ] Namens pgoswami
Verzonden: donderdag 25 augustus 2016 05:32
Aan: humaidazhar@gmail.com
CC: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Onderwerp: [MW:25313] RE: Re: % Ferrite & FN measurements of Duplex Stainless steel welds
Mr Azharuudin,
Your client is correct. The established formula for conversion is : % Ferrite= 0.7 x Ferrite No(FN) or FN= 1.4 X % Ferrite.
Please see the highlighted texts in the attached documents of Fisher Ferrito scope for your information. Up to 28-30 abstract values both FN & % Ferrite runs equal. At higher values the FN is more in number that %Ferrite.
If you look at the ferritoscope MP-30 training document, when you plot the lines intersecting the centerline of the curve(Page-4), it's clearly visible at higher % Ferrite values, the numerical values of Ferrite No(FN) is more.
Also it would be advisable to cross check the Lab reading (computed as per ASTM E-562) with Fisher Ferrito scope also. As claimed in the Ferrito scope catalogue(marked with a arrow) results could be correlated both in % Ferrite 7 Ferite No.
Use these information to straighten out the calculation and get your PQR through.
Also a question, what prompted you use Super Duplex Welding filler wire for DSS UNS-31803?? Appreciate your response.
Thanks.
Pradip Goswami, P.Eng,IWE
Independent Welding & Metallurgical Engineering Specialist ,
Ontario,Canada.
ca.linkedin.com/pub/pradip-goswami/5/985/299
.
From: Pradip Goswami [mailto:pradip.goswami@gmail.
com ]
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 9:49 AM
To: Anasua Goswami
Subject: Fwd: Re: % Ferrite & FN measurements of Duplex Stainless steel welds
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Mohammed Azharuddin" <humaidazhar@gmail.com>
Date: Aug 24, 2016 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: % Ferrite & FN measurements of Duplex Stainless steel welds
To: "Pradip Goswami" <pradip.goswami@gmail.com>
Cc:Dear Mr. Pradip,
Please see attached client specification.
We reported ferrite in both vol% and FN value.But the correlation what client is asking ( 70% FN VALUE= VOL% FERRITE ) we are unable to get it.Moreover it is a thumb rule I believe.
Thanks
Mohammed Azharuddin
On 23 August 2016 at 19:39, Pradip Goswami <pradip.goswami@gmail.com> wrote:
Could you scan and email the entire spec.Your client is correct asking ferrite to be reported in volume or % ferrite. Thx
On Aug 23, 2016 12:29 AM, "Mohammed Azharuddin" <humaidazhar@gmail.com> wrote:
Reported values and client comments attached
I believe that 70%FN = VOL% FERRITE is a rule of thumb [pgoswami] --- This is not a rule of thumb. This conversion is arrived at after conducting numerous tests and correlations of numerous data on weld ferrite content.
Actual correlation must be established from the measurements during PQR qualification
These readings are wrong. Please see the explanations above.
On 23 August 2016 at 07:25, Mohammed Azharuddin <humaidazhar@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Experts,
We have performed qualification on Duplex stainless steel BM UNS 31803 welded to itself with filler ER2594. Shielding gas AR+2% nitrogen
Ferrite measurements of welds were carried out as per ASTM E562 and AWS A4.2.
Client has rejected these values as the correlation is not appropriate.See below reported values and client comment.
From client point of view ,It should have been like VOL % FRRITE = 70% FN VALUE.
Your valuable advise will help us to save this WPS from being rejected.
Many Thanks
Regards,
Mohammed Azharuddin
--
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