Re: [MW:27758] Helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints for ACHEs?

Hi!

LPTwill indication of superficial flaws while as Helium or even air test will ensure even subsurface flaws reached up to root which is camaflaaged This may affect the min req leak path dimension 

Therefore some time this type of air test or helium leak test is recomended for root pass

Regards

Hegde

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 at 17:57, Makrand Sakpal

<makrands9@gmail.com> wrote:

Dears, 

For tube-to-tubesheet joints in air cooled heat exchangers, can helium leak test be a substitute for PT test? One of our vendor have proposed helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints.

Vendor have provided following justification,

We have offered a helium leak test after welding the tubes, in lieu of the requested liquid dye penetrant testing of the T/TS welds. We have found that the application process of spraying the liquid penetrant and developer through a plug hole using an aerosol can is ineffective as it is difficult to control the amount of chemicals being applied. we have even experienced on some jobs where excessive penetrant of developer solidifies giving false negative/positive results causing unnecessary rework or obscuring potential indications (leaks). if PT testing is desired over the helium leak testing, we can perform the testing at no charge, but will not guarantee or provide a report stating the results were acceptable. 

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Re: [MW:27757] Helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints for ACHEs?

He leak test will detect through and through discontinuities. PT will detect open to surface discontinuities. Hence Surface discontinuities will not be revealed by He leak test.

P. V. Ghanekar 

On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:55 chiluka venkatramulu, <ramuluchiluka@gmail.com> wrote:

Helium leak test is more effective than PT test. It will detect minute leaks. Its sensitivity also high. In my opinion it can be accepted.Before that you need to accept their procedure and leak rate.

Venkatramulu

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Makrand Sakpal <makrands9@gmail.com> wrote:

Dears, 

For tube-to-tubesheet joints in air cooled heat exchangers, can helium leak test be a substitute for PT test? One of our vendor have proposed helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints.

Vendor have provided following justification,

We have offered a helium leak test after welding the tubes, in lieu of the requested liquid dye penetrant testing of the T/TS welds. We have found that the application process of spraying the liquid penetrant and developer through a plug hole using an aerosol can is ineffective as it is difficult to control the amount of chemicals being applied. we have even experienced on some jobs where excessive penetrant of developer solidifies giving false negative/positive results causing unnecessary rework or obscuring potential indications (leaks). if PT testing is desired over the helium leak testing, we can perform the testing at no charge, but will not guarantee or provide a report stating the results were acceptable. 

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Re: [MW:27756] Helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints for ACHEs?

Helium leak test is more effective than PT test. It will detect minute leaks. Its sensitivity also high. In my opinion it can be accepted.Before that you need to accept their procedure and leak rate.

Venkatramulu

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Makrand Sakpal <makrands9@gmail.com> wrote:

Dears, 

For tube-to-tubesheet joints in air cooled heat exchangers, can helium leak test be a substitute for PT test? One of our vendor have proposed helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints.

Vendor have provided following justification,

We have offered a helium leak test after welding the tubes, in lieu of the requested liquid dye penetrant testing of the T/TS welds. We have found that the application process of spraying the liquid penetrant and developer through a plug hole using an aerosol can is ineffective as it is difficult to control the amount of chemicals being applied. we have even experienced on some jobs where excessive penetrant of developer solidifies giving false negative/positive results causing unnecessary rework or obscuring potential indications (leaks). if PT testing is desired over the helium leak testing, we can perform the testing at no charge, but will not guarantee or provide a report stating the results were acceptable. 

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[MW:27755] Helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints for ACHEs?

Dears, 

For tube-to-tubesheet joints in air cooled heat exchangers, can helium leak test be a substitute for PT test? One of our vendor have proposed helium leak test in lieu of PT test for tube-to-tubesheet joints.

Vendor have provided following justification,

We have offered a helium leak test after welding the tubes, in lieu of the requested liquid dye penetrant testing of the T/TS welds. We have found that the application process of spraying the liquid penetrant and developer through a plug hole using an aerosol can is ineffective as it is difficult to control the amount of chemicals being applied. we have even experienced on some jobs where excessive penetrant of developer solidifies giving false negative/positive results causing unnecessary rework or obscuring potential indications (leaks). if PT testing is desired over the helium leak testing, we can perform the testing at no charge, but will not guarantee or provide a report stating the results were acceptable. 

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Re: [MW:27754] Pressure Gauge range Selection for Hydro test

In section viii div 1

Rgds Prakash Gotimukul AIS

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 09:17 Mohan, <ggnanamalli@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,

Where in the code book does it state that the Hydrostatic Gauge should be between 1.5-4 times for  hydrostatic test pressure?

Regards

G.Mohanraj

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Re: [MW:27753] Pressure Gauge range Selection for Hydro test

Dear Mr Mohan, 

Refer Sec VIII DIV 1 UG-102 Test Gage.

Best Regards,

Jay Poojary

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 9:17 AM Mohan <ggnanamalli@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,

Where in the code book does it state that the Hydrostatic Gauge should be between 1.5-4 times for  hydrostatic test pressure?

Regards

G.Mohanraj

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[MW:27752] Pressure Gauge range Selection for Hydro test

Dear Experts,

Where in the code book does it state that the Hydrostatic Gauge should be between 1.5-4 times for  hydrostatic test pressure?

Regards

G.Mohanraj

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[MW:27751] Nos of sample test to test.

Dear Experts, 

Is there any code specify the numbers of sample piece to be sent for test in laboratory for structural steel in terms of heat number or MT.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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Re: [MW:27750] Re: water fill up test after painting of storage tank

I hereby would like to understand what would be the issue if the tank is painted completely ?  Is the water load and pressure will be retained by 500 micron paint , practically ? Think it guys  and correct me if am wrong 

Thanks

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Bapat, Ramesh <Ramesh.Bapat@cbi.com> wrote:

Hello Manoj, Sunil Kumar and All

As far as I know,

When the next edition of API 650 is published which is expected to be within the next couple of months, the wording below is to be included to provide guidance to owners who wish to consider internal & external coatings before the tank is hydrotested.  This will be a decision that only the owner can make.

7.3.7.2 Unless otherwise specified by the purchaser, all internal and external coating systems that will cover tank shell joints shall be applied after the hydrostatic test. If specified by the purchaser that a coating system is to be applied to the shell joints before the hydrostatic test, all shell joints to be coated shall be tested in accordance with 7.3.6.2.a prior to the application of coating.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Ramesh



Ramesh Bapat CMfgE, PE
Senior Engineering Advisor (Metallurgy)
Engineering & Construction
ramesh.bapat@CBI.com
CB&I
5850 Rogerdale Road
Suite 225
Houston, TX 77072
www.CBI.com

-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kumar
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 5:51 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:27745] Re: water fill up test after painting of storage tank

Hi Manoj,

Normally in API 650 tanks water test is done to analyse the settlement & to check leak too.

if the tank internal & external is painted, it may mask any possible pin-holes or cracks etc..

So i personally feel that it is better to do before painting. however expecting experts

opinion on this as well.


Regards,
Sunil kumar

On 4/23/18, pkkanishk2006@gmail.com <pkkanishk2006@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Manoj ,
>
> Yes its possible and ok to do a water fillup test after painting , but
> pls ensure that the painting has been given required curing time to
> avoid any cohesive disbandment .
>
> Regards,
> Pratish
>
> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 3:52:28 AM UTC+1, John Manoj wrote:
>>
>> Dear expert.
>>
>> We have one proposal to do water fillup test after internal and
>> external painting of water tank which is fabricated as per API 650.
>> Internal paint : 300 micron  polyamine cured novolac epoxy coating.
>> External : 205 micron paintining.
>>
>> Is it possible to do water fillup test after painting,
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Manoj.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --

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RE: [MW:27749] Re: water fill up test after painting of storage tank

Hello Manoj, Sunil Kumar and All

As far as I know,

When the next edition of API 650 is published which is expected to be within the next couple of months, the wording below is to be included to provide guidance to owners who wish to consider internal & external coatings before the tank is hydrotested. This will be a decision that only the owner can make.

7.3.7.2 Unless otherwise specified by the purchaser, all internal and external coating systems that will cover tank shell joints shall be applied after the hydrostatic test. If specified by the purchaser that a coating system is to be applied to the shell joints before the hydrostatic test, all shell joints to be coated shall be tested in accordance with 7.3.6.2.a prior to the application of coating.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Ramesh



Ramesh Bapat CMfgE, PE
Senior Engineering Advisor (Metallurgy)
Engineering & Construction
ramesh.bapat@CBI.com
CB&I
5850 Rogerdale Road
Suite 225
Houston, TX 77072
www.CBI.com


-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kumar
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 5:51 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:27745] Re: water fill up test after painting of storage tank

Hi Manoj,

Normally in API 650 tanks water test is done to analyse the settlement & to check leak too.

if the tank internal & external is painted, it may mask any possible pin-holes or cracks etc..

So i personally feel that it is better to do before painting. however expecting experts

opinion on this as well.


Regards,
Sunil kumar

On 4/23/18, pkkanishk2006@gmail.com <pkkanishk2006@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Manoj ,
>
> Yes its possible and ok to do a water fillup test after painting , but
> pls ensure that the painting has been given required curing time to
> avoid any cohesive disbandment .
>
> Regards,
> Pratish
>
> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 3:52:28 AM UTC+1, John Manoj wrote:
>>
>> Dear expert.
>>
>> We have one proposal to do water fillup test after internal and
>> external painting of water tank which is fabricated as per API 650.
>> Internal paint : 300 micron polyamine cured novolac epoxy coating.
>> External : 205 micron paintining.
>>
>> Is it possible to do water fillup test after painting,
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Manoj.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__materials-2Dweldi
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Re: [MW:27745] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1

Hi,

To add to below mail, alternatively you can select ER80SNi-1 which is classified for -46 Deg. C provided Ni content shall be <1% for sour service application.

L. Prabhu kumar

From: "Prabhu kumar Loganathan"<prabhu_rec@rediffmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:19:06
To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com"<materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:27723] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1

Hi Ramesh,

Your interpretation is correct as specified in below mail.

Impact test exempted for PQR qualification i.e. weld and HAZ, provided welding filler metal as specified in SFA specification shall confirm CVN test at MDMT or Colder temperature.

In this case filler metal is specified with -30 Deg. C CVN test and MDMT is -46 Deg. C and hence welding filler metal shall be tested at -46 Deg. C. This requirement shall be included in the PO stage itself so that filler metal manufacturer shall take care of impact test at -46 Deg. C (with minor medication of elements to improve toughness). Do not procure and test at -46 Deg. C with may pass for some batch and however it shall be ensured by the filler metal manufacturer.

Hope it is clear.

L. Prabhu kumar
Ph. no.+91 9003010978/ +968 95202761.


From: Ramesh <rameshkannandevaraj@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 12:38:00
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:27723] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1
 

​Hi

 

My understanding about UCS-67(a)(3) as below

 

Your PQR impact testing may be exempted provided

 1 .Your Filler metal shall be classified by their manufacturer through impact testing at a temperature not warmer than the MDMT 

But, In your case, TC has been reported as -30 Deg C.  You can use these batch consumables up to -30 Deg C MDMT without impact testing ( Not for -45 Deg C MDMT) hence exemption is NOT applicable for you.

 2. Additional testing beyond the scope of the SFA specification may be performed by the filler metal and/or flux manufacturer to expand their classification for a broader range of temperatures  - which is  self-explanatory - you need to have TC for -45 Deg C tested temperature

 Also I have attached some relevant interpretation details for your reference

Official web page for all interpretation available in link below. You may find many interpretation available related to this topic.

<https://cstools.asme.org/Interpretation/SearchInterpretation.cfm>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM, gigi <anhtrangnghieng@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Gent,

 

Non- impact tested WPS was used for some weld joint. Question :

·         If welding consumable ER70S-G have been impact tested at –30°C . As per para. UCS-67(a)(3), additional testing ( Impact test ) at –45°C is a requirement when WPS ( No impact test ) used ?

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramesh
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:22 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:27708] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1

 

Hi

You mean , already welded using non-impact tested WPS/PQR ?

 

Your PQR should have been qualified with impact testing, then only para.UCS-67(a) is applicable for u

Seems, your consumable supplier supplied ER 70S-G with guaranteed values up to minus 30 deg C only, which may not suitable for your MDMT, unless tested.

Ask supplier to replace your consumable to meet your service requirements. 

 

​

As per ASME BPVC.II.C-2017 SFA-5.18/SFA-5.18M,

Impact testing requirements should have been agreed before you place order, since no requirements as per code

 

​ 

 

  Either case you should have qualified WPS/PQR to meet your service requirements . ​

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Kannayeram Gnanapandithan <kgpandithan@gmail.com> wrote:

yes

 

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

 

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 7:16 PM, Vanchinath S.A. <vanchinaths@gmail.com> wrote:

You have to qualify WPS with impact test at mdmt.

 

On Mon, 16 Apr 2018, 19:10 gigi, <anhtrangnghieng@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,

 

Please help me to clarify issue as below:

 

Solid rod ER70S-G have been used for weld joints of HP Flare KO Drum by using WPS V02 (GTAW/SMAW – Impact test is not applied). Certificate of welding consumable ER70S-G indicates that impact test temperature is –30°C. Minimum design metal temperature (MDMT) of HP Flare KO Drum is –45°C. Material of HP Flare KO Drum is SA-516 Gr60 normalized.

In accordance with para.UCS-67(a)(3) ASME BPVC.VIII.1-2017 , is it a requirement to perform impact test at –45°C for welding consumable ER70S-G?

 

Thanks

 

Gigi.

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[MW:27745] NACE level 1 questions & answers

Dear all,

Please provide the study material like questions answered for NACE level 1 exam.please share if available.

My mail id 

krajaqc@gmail.com

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

Re: [MW:27745] Re: water fill up test after painting of storage tank

Hi Manoj,

Normally in API 650 tanks water test is done to analyse the settlement
& to check leak too.

if the tank internal & external is painted, it may mask any possible
pin-holes or cracks etc..

So i personally feel that it is better to do before painting. however
expecting experts

opinion on this as well.


Regards,
Sunil kumar

On 4/23/18, pkkanishk2006@gmail.com <pkkanishk2006@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Manoj ,
>
> Yes its possible and ok to do a water fillup test after painting , but pls
> ensure that the painting has been given required curing time to avoid any
> cohesive disbandment .
>
> Regards,
> Pratish
>
> On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 3:52:28 AM UTC+1, John Manoj wrote:
>>
>> Dear expert.
>>
>> We have one proposal to do water fillup test after internal and external
>> painting of water tank which is fabricated as per API 650.
>> Internal paint : 300 micron polyamine cured novolac epoxy coating.
>> External : 205 micron paintining.
>>
>> Is it possible to do water fillup test after painting,
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Manoj.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MW:27745] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1

Hi Ramesh,

Your interpretation is correct as specified in below mail.

Impact test exempted for PQR qualification i.e. weld and HAZ, provided welding filler metal as specified in SFA specification shall confirm CVN test at MDMT or Colder temperature.

In this case filler metal is specified with -30 Deg. C CVN test and MDMT is -46 Deg. C and hence welding filler metal shall be tested at -46 Deg. C. This requirement shall be included in the PO stage itself so that filler metal manufacturer shall take care of impact test at -46 Deg. C (with minor medication of elements to improve toughness). Do not procure and test at -46 Deg. C with may pass for some batch and however it shall be ensured by the filler metal manufacturer.

Hope it is clear.

L. Prabhu kumar
Ph. no.+91 9003010978/ +968 95202761.


From: Ramesh <rameshkannandevaraj@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 12:38:00
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:27723] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1
 

​Hi

 

My understanding about UCS-67(a)(3) as below

 

Your PQR impact testing may be exempted provided

 1 .Your Filler metal shall be classified by their manufacturer through impact testing at a temperature not warmer than the MDMT 

But, In your case, TC has been reported as -30 Deg C.  You can use these batch consumables up to -30 Deg C MDMT without impact testing ( Not for -45 Deg C MDMT) hence exemption is NOT applicable for you.

 2. Additional testing beyond the scope of the SFA specification may be performed by the filler metal and/or flux manufacturer to expand their classification for a broader range of temperatures  - which is  self-explanatory - you need to have TC for -45 Deg C tested temperature

 Also I have attached some relevant interpretation details for your reference

Official web page for all interpretation available in link below. You may find many interpretation available related to this topic.

<https://cstools.asme.org/Interpretation/SearchInterpretation.cfm>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:16 PM, gigi <anhtrangnghieng@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Gent,

 

Non- impact tested WPS was used for some weld joint. Question :

·         If welding consumable ER70S-G have been impact tested at –30°C . As per para. UCS-67(a)(3), additional testing ( Impact test ) at –45°C is a requirement when WPS ( No impact test ) used ?

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramesh
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:22 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:27708] impact testing of welding consumable , ASME VIII Div 1

 

Hi

You mean , already welded using non-impact tested WPS/PQR ?

 

Your PQR should have been qualified with impact testing, then only para.UCS-67(a) is applicable for u

Seems, your consumable supplier supplied ER 70S-G with guaranteed values up to minus 30 deg C only, which may not suitable for your MDMT, unless tested.

Ask supplier to replace your consumable to meet your service requirements. 

 

​

As per ASME BPVC.II.C-2017 SFA-5.18/SFA-5.18M,

Impact testing requirements should have been agreed before you place order, since no requirements as per code

 

​ 

 

  Either case you should have qualified WPS/PQR to meet your service requirements . ​

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Kannayeram Gnanapandithan <kgpandithan@gmail.com> wrote:

yes

 

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

 

On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 7:16 PM, Vanchinath S.A. <vanchinaths@gmail.com> wrote:

You have to qualify WPS with impact test at mdmt.

 

On Mon, 16 Apr 2018, 19:10 gigi, <anhtrangnghieng@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,

 

Please help me to clarify issue as below:

 

Solid rod ER70S-G have been used for weld joints of HP Flare KO Drum by using WPS V02 (GTAW/SMAW – Impact test is not applied). Certificate of welding consumable ER70S-G indicates that impact test temperature is –30°C. Minimum design metal temperature (MDMT) of HP Flare KO Drum is –45°C. Material of HP Flare KO Drum is SA-516 Gr60 normalized.

In accordance with para.UCS-67(a)(3) ASME BPVC.VIII.1-2017 , is it a requirement to perform impact test at –45°C for welding consumable ER70S-G?

 

Thanks

 

Gigi.

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