Materials & Welding: February 2013

Thursday, February 28, 2013

[MW:16911] location of test coupons for SA-266 quenched and tempered forgings

Dear counterparts!

Please, help us with the location of test coupons for SA-266 quenched and tempered forgings. According to p. 8.1.1.1 specification ASME SA-266 « For hollow forgings, the longitudinal axis of the specimens shall be located midway between the center and outer surfaces of the wall».

In ASME SA-266, SA-788 and SA-370 there is no information about the location of the specimens regarding to the height of quenched and tempered forgings. Can we take the specimens directly near the quenched surface or we should use a thermal buffer? And in which ASME document can we get this information?

Thank you in advance for your help!

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Re: [MW:16912] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

Hi'

As manufacturer has painted bolting area on flat face.

1) check as per drg what gasket to use

2)Is there any serration on flg face.

3)they paint after sand blasting or just by hand brush

Generally no manufacturer paint if full face gasket req

Chetan Karbhari

From: Gerlof Oegema <Gerlof.Oegema@aurecongroup.com>
To: "materials-welding@googlegroups.com" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2013 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:16902] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

Hi,

It is always good practice to slightly paint the clamped area of flange face only with a red oxide paint to maximum DFT of 40 microns (with gramophone finish still visible) as to prevent corrosion of this clamped area while waiting to be installed.

Regards,
G. Oegema

DISCLAIMER
-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Praphulla Phirke
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:36 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Cc: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:16901] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

What is the test pressure ?

Better to remove the paint completely and You can use either neoprene or PTFE gaskets.

Praphulla
Sent from my iPhone

On 28-Feb-2013, at 14:05, Lalu r p <lalucpt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear sir
> Normally for flange faces we do not paint the surface to ensure the
> proper sealing.and it is normally machined for the gasket tightness.
>
> On 2/28/13, G Sreenivas Rao <gsrinivasg3@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear sir
>> In pressure vessel flat flange shall not be painted, this is for
>> gasket seating and if painted the are will not be giving seal
>> tightness. please ensure if the area is giving seal tightness then
>> can be left as it is.
>>
>> Regards
>> G.Sreenivas Rao
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Suresh Babu
>> <suresh75.babu@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Dear Experts,
>>>
>>> We have some flat face flanges in Pressure vessel. The pressure
>>> vessel manufacturer done the painting on the flat face up to the
>>> bolt hole and left the remaining face unpainted. I hope the entire
>>> flat face will leave as unpainted. I am trying to get info from
>>> client which type of Gasket they will use at site.
>>>
>>> Please put your suggestions.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Suresh Babu,
>>> suresh75.babu@gmail.com
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [MW:16904] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

Dear Mates,

Thanks to all for your valuable feedback.

As per my request client provided the piping class document and the subject nozzles with flat face flange will be used with FF Gaskets. So the entire flat face need unpainted and shall be protected with rust prevention compound like MOLYKOTE. So we removed all the paint from the flat face with paint remover and thinner and applied rust prevention compound.

Thanks again.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Gerlof Oegema <Gerlof.Oegema@aurecongroup.com> wrote:

Hi,

It is always good practice to slightly paint the clamped area of flange face only with a red oxide paint to maximum DFT of 40 microns (with gramophone finish still visible) as to prevent corrosion of this clamped area while waiting to be installed.

Regards,
G. Oegema

DISCLAIMER

-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Praphulla Phirke
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:36 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Cc: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:16901] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

What is the test pressure ?

Better to remove the paint completely and You can use either neoprene or PTFE gaskets.

Praphulla
Sent from my iPhone

On 28-Feb-2013, at 14:05, Lalu r p <lalucpt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear sir
> Normally for flange faces we do not paint the surface to ensure the
> proper sealing.and it is normally machined for the gasket tightness.
>
> On 2/28/13, G Sreenivas Rao <gsrinivasg3@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear sir
>> In pressure vessel flat flange shall not be painted, this is for
>> gasket seating and if painted the are will not be giving seal
>> tightness. please ensure if the area is giving seal tightness then
>> can be left as it is.
>>
>> Regards
>> G.Sreenivas Rao
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Suresh Babu
>> <suresh75.babu@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Dear Experts,
>>>
>>> We have some flat face flanges in Pressure vessel. The pressure
>>> vessel manufacturer done the painting on the flat face up to the
>>> bolt hole and left the remaining face unpainted. I hope the entire
>>> flat face will leave as unpainted. I am trying to get info from
>>> client which type of Gasket they will use at site.
>>>
>>> Please put your suggestions.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Suresh Babu,
>>> suresh75.babu@gmail.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>> materials-welding@googlegroups.com
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> For more options, visit this group's bolg at
>>> http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122
>>> 787&trk=anet_ug_hm
>>>
>>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel
>>> views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their
>>> own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
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>> 87&trk=anet_ug_hm
>>
>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel
>> views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their
>> own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>> ---
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Best Regards,

Suresh Babu,

suresh75.babu@gmail.com

Re: [MW:16903] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line

On safety angle it is ok and also it will affect more of welding as
purging and its density is also higher than air and it will not have
upward flow.
Pandithan
Welding Consultant

On 2/28/13, Lalu r p <lalucpt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear sir
> For C and C-Mn steels it is possible to make satisfactory welds
> without back purge.But normally in this type of situations the line
> has to be purged with CO2 or NITROGEN before going to a hot work
> operation.but during socket welding it is permissible to prevent the
> fire at normal pressure.
>
> On 2/28/13, Dinesh <som.din@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear sir,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please can you verify in project specification for co2 purging on GTAW
>> process
>>
>> .As well need, might be this occurrence of co2 purging to avoid an any
>> oxidizer to help in it to catch fire during welding.
>>
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Dinesh
>>
>>
>>
>> From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vino Varghese
>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:34 AM
>> To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [MW:16892] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Sir,
>>
>>
>>
>> What does your WPS states?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards, Vino
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:52 AM, K.M Hrishikesan <hrishikm07@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Our safety team recommends CO2 purging during repair welding of a 2"
>> socket
>> weld joint of a CS line( consumable- ER 70S-2 process GTAW). Traces of
>> oil
>> and toxic gases have already been removed from the loop by flushing
>> and
>> CO2 purging. Still, as a precautionary measure, CO2 puging is being
>> recommended during welding also
>>
>>
>>
>> Does it have any impact on the weld quality?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
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RE: [MW:16902] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

Re: [MW:16901] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

What is the test pressure ?

Better to remove the paint completely and You can use either neoprene or PTFE gaskets.

Praphulla
Sent from my iPhone

On 28-Feb-2013, at 14:05, Lalu r p <lalucpt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear sir
> Normally for flange faces we do not paint the surface to ensure the
> proper sealing.and it is normally machined for the gasket tightness.
>
> On 2/28/13, G Sreenivas Rao <gsrinivasg3@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear sir
>> In pressure vessel flat flange shall not be painted, this is for
>> gasket seating and if painted the are will not be giving seal
>> tightness. please ensure if the area is giving seal tightness then can
>> be left as it is.
>>
>> Regards
>> G.Sreenivas Rao
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Suresh Babu <suresh75.babu@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Dear Experts,
>>>
>>> We have some flat face flanges in Pressure vessel. The pressure vessel
>>> manufacturer done the painting on the flat face up to the bolt hole and
>>> left
>>> the remaining face unpainted. I hope the entire flat face will leave as
>>> unpainted. I am trying to get info from client which type of Gasket they
>>> will use at site.
>>>
>>> Please put your suggestions.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Suresh Babu,
>>> suresh75.babu@gmail.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>> For more options, visit this group's bolg at
>>> http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
>>>
>>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views
>>> and
>>> meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions
>>> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Re: [MW:16900] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line

Dear sir
For C and C-Mn steels it is possible to make satisfactory welds
without back purge.But normally in this type of situations the line
has to be purged with CO2 or NITROGEN before going to a hot work
operation.but during socket welding it is permissible to prevent the
fire at normal pressure.

On 2/28/13, Dinesh <som.din@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear sir,
>
>
>
> Please can you verify in project specification for co2 purging on GTAW
> process
>
> .As well need, might be this occurrence of co2 purging to avoid an any
> oxidizer to help in it to catch fire during welding.
>
>
>
> regards
>
> Dinesh
>
>
>
> From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vino Varghese
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:34 AM
> To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MW:16892] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line
>
>
>
> Dear Sir,
>
>
>
> What does your WPS states?
>
>
>
> Regards, Vino
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:52 AM, K.M Hrishikesan <hrishikm07@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Our safety team recommends CO2 purging during repair welding of a 2" socket
> weld joint of a CS line( consumable- ER 70S-2 process GTAW). Traces of
> oil
> and toxic gases have already been removed from the loop by flushing and
> CO2 purging. Still, as a precautionary measure, CO2 puging is being
> recommended during welding also
>
>
>
> Does it have any impact on the weld quality?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> --
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Re: [MW:16899] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

Dear sir
Normally for flange faces we do not paint the surface to ensure the
proper sealing.and it is normally machined for the gasket tightness.

On 2/28/13, G Sreenivas Rao <gsrinivasg3@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear sir
> In pressure vessel flat flange shall not be painted, this is for
> gasket seating and if painted the are will not be giving seal
> tightness. please ensure if the area is giving seal tightness then can
> be left as it is.
>
> Regards
> G.Sreenivas Rao
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Suresh Babu <suresh75.babu@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Dear Experts,
>>
>> We have some flat face flanges in Pressure vessel. The pressure vessel
>> manufacturer done the painting on the flat face up to the bolt hole and
>> left
>> the remaining face unpainted. I hope the entire flat face will leave as
>> unpainted. I am trying to get info from client which type of Gasket they
>> will use at site.
>>
>> Please put your suggestions.
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Suresh Babu,
>> suresh75.babu@gmail.com
>>
>> --
>> To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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>> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
>>
>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views
>> and
>> meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions
>> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>> ---
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>>
>
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[MW:16898] welding of Olets

Dear All

Do you have any sketch in reference documents that related to welding of Olets for interpretation of the following subject?

The welding of weldolets, sockolets and threadolets shall have a throat section that achieves the full strength requirements of the o-Iet rating and is profiled to avoid stress concentration.The weld profile in the longitudinal and transverse plane shall be a little thicker than a projection of the o-Iet weld preparation and extend intersect the pipe or vessel surface with an as-welded concave finish, radius about 10mm. For the transverse plane on near equal diameter run pipe, the weld profile provides a flat as welded surface from the o-Iet to the run pipe without extending to the 3 o'clock line on the run pipe.Unless approved by COMPANY, the weld section in all places shall exceed the branch pipe thickness.

Regards

Re: [MW:16897] FLAT FACE FLANGE PAINTING

Dear sir
In pressure vessel flat flange shall not be painted, this is for
gasket seating and if painted the are will not be giving seal
tightness. please ensure if the area is giving seal tightness then can
be left as it is.

Regards
G.Sreenivas Rao

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Suresh Babu <suresh75.babu@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Experts,
>
> We have some flat face flanges in Pressure vessel. The pressure vessel
> manufacturer done the painting on the flat face up to the bolt hole and left
> the remaining face unpainted. I hope the entire flat face will leave as
> unpainted. I am trying to get info from client which type of Gasket they
> will use at site.
>
> Please put your suggestions.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Suresh Babu,
> suresh75.babu@gmail.com
>
> --
> To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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> http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
>
> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and
> meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions
> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
> ---
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RE: [MW:16896] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line

Dear sir,

Please can you verify in project specification for co2 purging on GTAW process

.As well need, might be this occurrence of co2 purging to avoid an any oxidizer to help in it to catch fire during welding.

regards

Dinesh

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vino Varghese
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:34 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:16892] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line

Dear Sir,

What does your WPS states?

Regards, Vino

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:52 AM, K.M Hrishikesan <hrishikm07@gmail.com> wrote:

Our safety team recommends CO2 purging during repair welding of a 2" socket weld joint of a CS line( consumable- ER 70S-2 process GTAW). Traces of oil and toxic gases have already been removed from the loop by flushing and CO2 purging. Still, as a precautionary measure, CO2 puging is being recommended during welding also

Does it have any impact on the weld quality?

Thanks

RE: [MW:16895] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line

Mr. Hrishikeshan,

CO2 purging to flush oil and other gases needs to be done prior to welding. Following flushing area needs be inspected to ensure that oil and and other gases are properly removed.

As the weld is a socket weld , CO2 purging could be maintained but at very reduced pressure. CO2 "purge"should not interfere with "Argon" shielding gas used for GTAW and causes porosity.

If the weld is critical, then the advise is to do a mock up prior to welding.

Thanks.

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Ontario, Canada.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgoswami@quickclic.net

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vino Varghese
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 10:34 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:16892] CO2 purging during TIG welding of CS service line

Dear Sir,

What does your WPS states?

Regards, Vino

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:52 AM, K.M Hrishikesan <hrishikm07@gmail.com> wrote:

Our safety team recommends CO2 purging during repair welding of a 2" socket weld joint of a CS line( consumable- ER 70S-2 process GTAW). Traces of oil and toxic gases have already been removed from the loop by flushing and CO2 purging. Still, as a precautionary measure, CO2 puging is being recommended during welding also

Does it have any impact on the weld quality?

Thanks

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Re: [MW:16894] RE: 16879] PMI on Stainless Steel Welds

Dear Binoy,

I totally agree with Mr. Nopadon.

Just to add on, check whether PMI has been done at Manufacturer location before delivery to your location. Request for the Report. Usually, PMI is a cross verification to confirm that no mix-up of material. This verification can be 5%-10% of total lot of same Heat No.

Regards,

Vino, Doha

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 8:24 AM, <c.nopadon@vipco-thai.com> wrote:

Dear Mr.Binoy,

Not necessary , it depends on project spec. and how confident in working system. For me , we will perform PMI internally anyway to double check correct material grade and correct welding rod.

Be aware that some PMI spec. require to check Carbon on high or low carbon stainless such as 316L or 347H , etc. Normal PMI cannot perform this check and you have to use portable spectrometer which will be much more costly. You have to review PMI spec. and material you are welding carefully.

Regards,
C.Nopadon

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Binoy Soman
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:10 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:16879] PMI on Stainless Steel Welds

Dear Experts,

In a project, Is it always necessary to do PMI on all Stainless welds or whether it is a clent requirement only. Code followed is ASME B 31.1

S.Binoy

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Materials & Welding