It is my understanding that the purpose of classification within Section
IX (and elsewhere) is not only to define the characteristics of a
particular item but also to allow substitution of similar items for the
original. Thus, for example, if one qualified with a flux wire
combination from one company that was certified F7P4-EM12K any other
manufacturers flux that was also certified F7P4-EM12K could be employed
without requalification. With stainless and nickel base materials, by
not having a "classification" scheme, Section IX has effectively
eliminated the flexibility of substituting one brand for another. I can
only speculate that this is both due to the proprietary nature of flux
manufacture and because fluxes for stainless steel and nickel base
materials vary greatly in composition and operating characteristics.
Producers (and consumers) should also be aware that requirements such as
noted from ASME Section III (Nuclear Sections of ASME Code) and as may
be seen from time to time in customer specifications greatly increase
the cost and may affect availability/timeliness of procuring the
necessary raw materials. A manufacturer should ascertain whether such
requirements are necessary and should advise customers of the cost
consequences. Such additional constraints are rarely required except in
highly critical/nasty environments. In this respect, ASME Section III
is extremely conservative and, probably, correctly so given that the
life spans of nuclear power plants are going on to 45 years or more, the
consequences of significant failure are dire, and any identified problem
has huge public relations ramifications.
john
-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
[mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
pgoswami@quickclic.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:32 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6068] [Fwd: MW- 6062-SFA for SS flux.]
---------------------------- Original Message
----------------------------
Subject: MW- 6062-SFA for SS flux.
From: "GOSWAMI Pradip -THERMAL" <pradip.goswami@opg.com>
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010 4:27 pm
To: pgoswami@quickclic.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Dear Prem,
SAW fluxes are always classified with filler wire. The rationale:- final
chemistry of SAW weld would be equally influenced by the chemistry of
the bare electrode + the chemical composition of the flux. AWS
classification route for C.S & LAS fluxes are always with Flux & wire.
In the past I came across European Classifications (e.g. EN) while
dealing various vendors. EN -760 (see attached) gives a fairly good
description of the flux behaviour. Mechanical properties cannot be
established till wire and fluxes are welded together. To the best of
my knowledge AWS/ASME Sec-II.C does not have a separate SFA No for
fluxes not at least listed in the codes books .
ASME Sec-IX is the welding qualification code. However if the design
code of the components is ASME Sec-III(NB/NC/ND) then NB/NC/ND-2420
would be applicable, which specifies for SAW consumables:-
* The required tests shall be conducted for each combination of
heat of bare electrodes and lot of submerged arc flux and for each
combination of lot of fabricated electrodes and lot of submerged arc
flux. Tests performed on welding material in the qualification of weld
procedures will satisfy the testing requirements for the lot, heat, or
combination of heat and batch of welding material used. A lot of
submerged arc or electro slag flux is defined as the quantity of flux
produced from the same combination of raw materials under one production
schedule.
If your supplier is from Europe, may consult them regarding both EN and
AWS/ASME classifications, which definitively would give more
authenticated information about SAW flux and wire + flux combinations.
I hope this would help you to explain the facts to clients.
Thanks
Pradip Goswami, P.Eng.
Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist
Ontario Power Generation Inc.
---------------------------- Original Message
----------------------------
Subject: [MW:6062] SFA for SS flux
From: "PREM SHANKARDUTT NAUTIYAL" <prem_nautiyal@rediffmail.com>
Date: Wed, July 21, 2010 12:06 pm
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Dear Friends
We are qualifying a procedure of SAW process for a particular job as per
ASME Sec IX.
The MOC is SS304L.
We are using an imported SAW wire and flux combination: ER308L and
compatible flux.
However client wants the SFA number of the SS SAW flux to be mentioned
on WPS as we have mentioned SFA 5.9 for ER308L.
Does ASME Sec II part C, 2007 edition mention SFA for SS flux ?
Client is adamant and We are stuck-up.
Please advise !
Regards
Prem Nautiyal
PREM S NAUTIYAL
CELL : 9820313278
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