Materials & Welding

It appears that the problem is with the mismatch / ovality and not with the root gap, with 1.5 or 2.0mm root gap or equal to dia of filler wire used (which normally we recommend on paper) you can achieve a good weld penetration, but practically, when you start welding with a 2mm root gap and finishes 180° the root gap will close to zero due to distortion during welding the other half. That is why most welders prefer wider root gap than recommended, and it should left to welder judiciously (of course all welders can’t be same and depends on their skill), you can try out few joints with various root gaps. You can overcome with it by using pipe clamps for fit up.   From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bathula Anil Kumar Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:17 PM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:880] clarification reg root gap   Dear Friends, My Name is Anil...

Dear Friends, My Name is Anil Kumar working as a Quality Control Inspector in Qatar , for Decon for an Oil Refinery project. I Joined the company recently and during my regular visits to site and also reviewing various data sheets I found that most of the defects are Root undercut, LOP and LOF, the welding used for the production is TIG welding with 2.4mm filler wires for all SS, CS and LTCS materials the Dia of the pipes ranges from 2inch to 24 inch and yeah there is lot of problem with the material reg the mismatch and ovality in the pipe apart from this another prob I observe that the root gap used for the welding is mostly 4+ mm for all the joints , I strongly recommended for 2.5 to 3.5 mm at the max for the Root gap but some of the welders complaining that they are finding difficulty in moving the electrode. I request you to kindly suggest me what is the root gap for the above said materials and what are the other possibilities for the above said repairs and the corrective acti...

Please refer para B 31.3 345.9 where it is clearly mentioned that the conditions are stated in 345.1(c). And in 345.1(c) refers that both the conditions (1) & (2) must be fulfilled to waive a hydrotest. In general, testing in manufacturers premises are not normally taken care unless it is witnessed by the purchaser and that is also for specific requirements. RB On Jun 20, 11:12 pm, "Tirumala B N Tagore" <tagore....@gmail.com> wrote: > If the pipe is procured as per  materials pecification and  duly hydro > tested at mills and  pipe line segments are tested individually at works , > then field NDE would suffice and  end user  may waive off field hydro test. > exception to this is any PWHT for field welds done , in such cases exception > to Hydro test/ Pneumatric test is not recommended. > Pneumatic test can be done in lieu of  Hydro test subjected to proper > precautions, tieing in at various locations are done f...

Dear Friends, Sometimes even pneumatic test also is not the correct substitution. e.g, Storage spheres, Mounded bullets etc.) Regards, S.Mathusoothanan, -----Original Message----- From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rituraj Bose Sent: 20 June, 2008 8:54 AM To: Materials & Welding Subject: [MW:876] Re: 867] pressure testing - with attachment Dear Mr. Subramanium, Please note that RT or any NDT cannot replace Hydro or Pneumatic test. It can only certify the welded joint, not the whole pipe line. R. Bose On Jun 16, 10:21 am, "shiva.subramanium" <shiva.subraman...@wsiko.com> wrote: > Dear Members, Mr. Surya and Mr. Raghuram > > Due to water problem, you cannot go for pneumatic test based on TP = 110% of > DP) because the hazard of energy release. > > Just calculate the pneumatic pressure for the system > > Hydrotest = 60 KG/cm2, so design pressure is around 40 Kg/cm2 > > For ...

If the pipe is procured as per  materials pecification and  duly hydro tested at mills and  pipe line segments are tested individually at works , then field NDE would suffice and  end user  may waive off field hydro test. exception to this is any PWHT for field welds done , in such cases exception to Hydro test/ Pneumatric test is not recommended. Pneumatic test can be done in lieu of  Hydro test subjected to proper precautions, tieing in at various locations are done for safety reasons  based on energy calculations. Tagore On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Rituraj Bose < boser2006@gmail.com > wrote: Dear Mr. Subramanium, Please note that RT or any NDT cannot replace Hydro or Pneumatic test. It can only certify the welded joint, not the whole pipe line. R. Bose On Jun 16, 10:21 am, "shiva.subramanium" < shiva.subraman...@wsiko.com > wrote: > Dear Members, Mr. Surya and Mr. Raghuram > > Due to water prob...

http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding?hl=en   For Gmail subscribers   Just click the above link and use your Google ID and password if have subscribed with your gmail   For Non Gmail subscribers   Use your email ID as user name and choose your own password for the first time to register     You may note the following additional info   To subscribe this group, send email to materials-welding-subscribe@googlegroups.com     To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com   To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com   Group’s site @ http://materials-welding.blogspot.com   From: Prashant Barodia [mailto:ppbdhatumitra@yahoo.co.in] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 1:02 PM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:873] RE: 872] Welding Tolerance   ...

Dear Mr. Subramanium, Please note that RT or any NDT cannot replace Hydro or Pneumatic test. It can only certify the welded joint, not the whole pipe line. R. Bose On Jun 16, 10:21 am, "shiva.subramanium" <shiva.subraman...@wsiko.com> wrote: > Dear Members, Mr. Surya and Mr. Raghuram > > Due to water problem, you cannot go for pneumatic test based on TP = 110% of > DP) because the hazard of energy release. > > Just calculate the pneumatic pressure for the system > > Hydrotest = 60 KG/cm2, so design pressure is around 40 Kg/cm2 > > For pneumatic test, pressure shall be around 44 kg/cm2. > > Imagine the hazard of energy release with reference to the > attachment(attached previous message of Criticality of Hydrotest pressure vs > pneumatic pressure) > > So, better you can go for 100% RT/UT for all Butt joints and PT/MPT for > attachment weld as per B31.3 para 345.9. > > S. Siva Subramanian > World Services Ita...

Here we need to consider a point is that basically these Cr-Mo steels are used for high temperature applications along with creep resistance. Therefore ,selection of welding consumbales are also important and the responsibility of welding engineer with respect to Strength,Chemical Composition,Service condition and application etc.. Hence, carbon steel electorde E6013 is not appropriate for welding cr- mo steels beacause of above said reasons.. -- Regards Vasanth --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. -~----------~---...

Yes you can, refer fig 328.4.3 in ASME B31.3 and/or ASME B16.25 (Butt welding ends) From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto: materials-welding@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Zameer Mohammed Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:16 PM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:872] Welding Tolerance   Dear Friends, We want to weld a 24'' SS PIPE A358 GR 321, 6.53 mm THK, to a Fitting / Pipe with same size and specification but with a Thickness of 9.53mm and 12.70 mm. Can we do the welding of these items? What is the accepted tolerance as per ASME B31.3? Where can I find these details in ASME B313.3? Thank you, Regards, Sabir --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogs...

Dear Friends, We want to weld a 24'' SS PIPE A358 GR 321, 6.53 mm THK, to a Fitting / Pipe with same size and specification but with a Thickness of 9.53mm and 12.70 mm. Can we do the welding of these items? What is the accepted tolerance as per ASME B31.3? Where can I find these details in ASME B313.3? Thank you, Regards, Sabir --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

5 June 2008 (Source: sswnews.com)   Nisshin Steel Co. confirmed that it had shipped 550,000 stainless steel pipes without conducting required non-destructive testing for detecting defects and tests for ability to withstand hydraulic pressure and air pressure. The Nisshin Steel plant in Amagasaki of the western Japan prefecture of Hyogo failed to carry out the testing, mandatory under Japanese Industrial Standards and fabricated test data for some steel pipes manufactured at the plant in the past five years. A Nisshin Steel in house investigation of test data found that a total of 480,665 stainless steel pipes were shipped without non-destructive inspections or tests on hydraulic pressure out of 4,311,205 subject to such tests. Tests were also not conducted on 71,756 stainless steel pipes of 2,485,458 subject to air pressure resistance testing. Nisshin Steel is the third Japanese steelmaker at which testing data fabrication has been revealed, following similar cases late...

In addition to the code,site condition and material issues, unfortunately the Process commissioning engineer has the final say if the line can be pressure tested by hydro/pneumatic/any other liquid, as they define the type of test to be performed for that fluid process system...not a construction or material engineer. The apex person to over rule all these is the plant owner's process engineer. So there is every possiblity that the line need not been performed with any kind of pressure test at all with the right knowledge of the process/piping system. So pnuematic in lieu of hydro due to scarcity of water may not be justified for acceptance, though both tests are intended to ensure the integrity of the system as a whole and of all types of joints of the system. With regards, Kannan. "Bathula Raghuram \(Mumbai - PIPING\)" <R.Bathula@ticb.com> Sent by: materials-welding@googlegroups.com 16/06/2008 09:43 Please respond to materials-welding@google...

Dear Members, Mr. Surya and Mr. Raghuram Due to water problem, you cannot go for pneumatic test based on TP = 110% of DP) because the hazard of energy release. Just calculate the pneumatic pressure for the system Hydrotest = 60 KG/cm2, so design pressure is around 40 Kg/cm2 For pneumatic test, pressure shall be around 44 kg/cm2. Imagine the hazard of energy release with reference to the attachment(attached previous message of Criticality of Hydrotest pressure vs pneumatic pressure) So, better you can go for 100% RT/UT for all Butt joints and PT/MPT for attachment weld as per B31.3 para 345.9. S. Siva Subramanian World Services Italia S.p.A., Kuwait Operations, P.O. Box : 28928 - Safat : 13151 - Kuwait. Tel : +965 3262945 / 3260338 / 3263987 / 3263691/92, Ext.\ 207 Mobile - 00965 632 7395 E-mail : shiva.subramanium@wsiko.com -----Original Message----- From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) Sen...

Assuming your design code is B31.3, refer para 345 for the creteria (TP is 110% of DP) Also refer earlier message posted in this group titled "Criticality of Pneumatic pressure test vs Hydrostatic on piping system" we should always remember that is necessary to evaluate the design aspects of material selection for piping lines to be submitted to pneumatic test: in these cases ASME B 31.3 require that the materials be guaranteed against their brittleness at the ambient temperature during pneumatic test. Typical cases are the plants where the ambient temperature could reach even minus 50^C (e.g. some parts of Russia). -----Original Message----- From: gajjalla surya prakash [mailto:gajjalla@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:32 PM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: pressure testing dear members, we are doing hydrotest for the piping systems and now facing the problem of water scarcity ,and our customer praposes to perform the pneumatic test . for example hyd...

dear members, we are doing hydrotest for the piping systems and now facing the problem of water scarcity ,and our customer praposes to perform the pneumatic test . for example hydrotest pressure is 60kg/cm2 what should be the pneumatic pressure . where can we get this information. surya prakash gajjalla. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

for mechanical  properties ref: API 5L (2000) line pipe specifications,6.1 and 6.2   Babu.P.R --- On Fri, 6/13/08, asmat ullah <aubajwa@gmail.com> wrote: From: asmat ullah <aubajwa@gmail.com> Subject: [MW:861] API 5L Material poperties To: "Materials & Welding" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 4:16 AM Hi friend, could any body let me know where i can find mechanical properties (other than tensile and yield strength) of API 5L A, B, X42, X52, X60.., .....material? I am interested in properties like poisson ratio, modulus of elasticity (young's modulus)... etc.. please help Best Regards, Asmat Ullah --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.c...

Just the below link for more information, interesting one http://www.unm.fr/en/general/en13445/ published hormonised stanadrds for Directive 97/23/EEC can be seen at http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/reflist/equippre.html and http://www.newapproach.org/Directives/ProductFamilies.asp?97/23/EC The attached list contains references to harmonised standards for pressure equipment and harmonised supporting standards for materials used in manufacturing pressure equipment. The follwoing pretext taken from a CEN link may be helpful A harmonised standards is a standard considered by the European Commission as satisfying some of the directives essential safety requirements. Harmonised standards are covered by three types of European Standard:- * Harmonised Product Standards These are application codes that cover the design and manufacture of Pressure Vessels, Boilers and Pipework * Harmonised Support Standards Welding, NDT and other stan...

Best would be provide electrical heating pads for the joints so that the minimum preheat can be maintained during the entire welding cycle Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:30:04 -0700 From: tagore.tbn@gmail.com To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:860] Re: Site welding & heat treatment for ASTM A 387 Gr 22 CL1 Basically Cr-Mo steels need Pre heating and  post heating when ever there are breaks for lunch, tea , shift changes. Interpass temperature maintenance is a MUST . Therfore even in site , the whole weld zone shall be in an enclosed environment so that there are no wind  effects . For that matter any welding in an open wind environment is not advised. Regards, Tagore On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:15 PM, < Sudipto_Banerjee@fwuk.fwc.com > wrote: Pls. let me know if there should be any potential concerns of a reactor made of ASTM A 387 Gr 22 CL1 in SITE ASSEMBLY with regards to welding, site heat treatments and others. If there is, then pls. let me know...

Dear Paresh,   How are you & your family?   Warm regards, Gurudas D. Madye --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Modulus of elasticity is direct relation of stress vs strain, that you need to calculate based on the load acting on that object. Similar way poisson ratio also comes from displacement strain, that is what I remember from the text we read few decades back at college, thou I have never used it in my career till now. I don't know(think) there will a fixed value for the grades mentioned below, members please share really is there any tabulated values (possible) in any of the hand books. -----Original Message----- From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto: materials-welding@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of asmat ullah Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 4:16 AM To: Materials & Welding Subject: [MW:861] API 5L Material poperties   Hi friend,   could any body let me know where i can find mechanical properties (other than tensile and yield strength) of API 5L A, B, X42, X52, X60.., .....material?   I am interested in properties like poisson ratio, ...

Hi friend, could any body let me know where i can find mechanical properties (other than tensile and yield strength) of API 5L A, B, X42, X52, X60.., .....material? I am interested in properties like poisson ratio, modulus of elasticity (young's modulus)... etc.. please help Best Regards, Asmat Ullah --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

People involved in the valve application, take care before placing order to know the component materials of the valve. The 17-4PH usually used in the stem construction have failed like the below. Tyco valves has observed similar failures in thier inhouse research and has reported the same on using 17-4PH. And are not recommending this material unless specifically asked for. As all suppliers and buyers do not take much interest in the small components of the valve, it will be the responsibility of the buyer to take note of these before ordering and the complete knowledge of the service involved. Alternatives would be FXM19, F51, F6a Cl4 depending on temp. and service.(17-4PH is 17Cr-4Ni-Pricipatation Hardened) http://www.hghouston.com/x/25.html (Photo attached for members not having net access.) Nomarski intereference contrast photograph of the microstructure of a 17-4PH stainless steel sleeve bearing overlayed with sintered tungsten carbide. A hydrogen embrittlement crack ha...

Basically Cr-Mo steels need Pre heating and  post heating when ever there are breaks for lunch, tea , shift changes. Interpass temperature maintenance is a MUST . Therfore even in site , the whole weld zone shall be in an enclosed environment so that there are no wind  effects . For that matter any welding in an open wind environment is not advised. Regards, Tagore On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:15 PM, < Sudipto_Banerjee@fwuk.fwc.com > wrote: Pls. let me know if there should be any potential concerns of a reactor made of ASTM A 387 Gr 22 CL1 in SITE ASSEMBLY with regards to welding, site heat treatments and others. If there is, then pls. let me know what are the points to be taken care by the vendor. Thanking you. Best Regards, Sudipto Banerjee Man. no. B 4512 Equipment Engg. Department Office no. 0091-(0)44-6622 2947 Mobile 1 (official) : 0044- 0 7733287865 Mobile 2 (personal) : 0091-9930005960 ======================================================= Co...

For Cr -Mo steels the most important factor is the tempering temperature of  the procured  materials. If he materials are procured in Normalized & tempered condition, and  if the PWHT temperature as occured is lesser than the TEMPERED temp. of the procured state , then it should pass the mechnaical tests . As suggested by mr.Sachin, PQR needs to be established and  at the same time the parent materials also needs to be tested for tensile, yield in general and  impact test if  the specification of  project vis-a-vis MDMT call so. Regards, tagore On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Muhammed Ibrahim < ibratech@gmail.com > wrote: Dear Sachin,   Code says about the increase or decrease of time at a temperature. atleast 80 percent of the PQR shall be in production. I am not clear about the time it discuss.   2008/6/11 sachin sankhe < sachin.sankhe@rediffmail.com >:   Dear Rishi, Hardness wont be suffucient to accept since ...

Dear Mr.Ragu, Thanks for warning me. I just forget that Codes & standards should not be copied in any form. Thanks once again. Regards, S.Mathusoothanan -----Original Message----- From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) Sent: 12 June, 2008 8:01 AM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:857] Diffusible H2 content and Hydrogen cracking study Dear Mr Mathusoothanan Apriciate your posting, but I have to approve this message without the attchements, since it is agianst the rules of this group (and all members are requested to not post any codes/standards as attachements in the group) Thanking you for your co operation! -----Original Message----- From: mathu.subramanian [mailto:mathu.subramanian@kharafinational.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:20 AM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: 851] Diffusible H2 content and Hydrogen cracking study Dear friend, E6013 is not t...

Dear Mr Mathusoothanan Apriciate your posting, but I have to approve this message without the attchements, since it is agianst the rules of this group (and all members are requested to not post any codes/standards as attachements in the group) Thanking you for your co operation! -----Original Message----- From: mathu.subramanian [mailto:mathu.subramanian@kharafinational.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:20 AM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: 851] Diffusible H2 content and Hydrogen cracking study Dear friend, E6013 is not the compatible electrode to weld Cr-Mo steels and it is normal carbon steel electrode. In Cr-Mo steels so many grades are there. Gr.1, Gr.11, Gr.22, Gr.5, Gr.9, Gr.91. Please refer attached ASME Specs for Electrodes & Materials. According to grade of material welding electrodes is to be selected. As said by Mr Raghuram, two different AWS classifications can not be compared for diffusible hydrogen level. Two hydrogen levels of same AWS classifica...

In addition to what Mr Sachin wrote, Refer para F331 (Appendix F), you could land up in re tempering the material (of course re qualification of your procedure too), also the salvage is depends on operating temperature (max) and the holding time at higher temp during HT. Its definitely not an easy solution. From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of sachin sankhe Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:06 PM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:848] Re: 835] Re: Clarification on Heat treatment / PWHT -Reg.     Dear Rishi, Hardness wont be suffucient to accept since we have changed grain structure to certain extent by exceding PWHT temp.resulting in change in mechanical properties. In that case you need to re-qualify the procedure with new PWHT temperature and all mechanical test to be done as per relevant specification requirement. If the test passes then we can accept the productio...

We have used STT welding in Jamnagar phase-I refinery at Fabrication shops,to facilitate SAW machine welding. But we have faced root porosity problems severely. It was difficult to avoid due to heavy wind from the downstream side of the fabrication shops and air from the inside of piping. We have shifted to E6010/GTAW root during the next phases of expansion and STT machines were not used significantly. STT is a good process provided your welding environment could be controlled. Regards, P.M.Ganesan Site QC Manager QA&C Department Kharafi National P.O. Box: 24081, Safat - 13101, Kuwait Mob: +965.7202358 Email: p.ganesan@kharafinational.com Website: www.kharafinational.com -----Original Message----- From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gajjalla surya prakash Sent: 11 June, 2008 6:22 AM To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:845] Re: Thanx & STT welding procedur please find the attached qualified procedur...