Materials & Welding: February 2021

Thursday, February 25, 2021

Re: [MW:32003] Preheat temperature

Is it not recommended to use higher side also

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 8:45 AM 'Sankaran Sp' via Materials & Welding <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear friend,

when ever joining of two different P nos ( 5A+4) welding, following points to be taken care :
1, Pre heating temp shall be maintained as higher Pno ( 5A)
2, PWHT temp shall be maintained as per higher Pno(5A)
3, Consumable shall be maintained as per lower Pno( 4)

Regards,
Sankaran.SP
Welding & Metallurgy expert.

On Wednesday, 24 February, 2021, 03:17:21 pm IST, Vishwas Keskar <vvkeskar123@gmail.com> wrote:

Apply the rules applicable for Higher P.No. of the two materials being welded.
P no 4 to P No 5A _ Apply criteria for P NO 5A materilas. Also consider pre heating addresed in WPS

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 07:13 EmaD FaRaHanI, <emad.farahani@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
As Per ASME Sec VIII, appendix R preheat criteria are determined for different PNumbers.
But in case of welding of one BM from PNumber A to PNumber B, how can we determine the preheat criteria (temperature and thickness)?

Thanks,

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Wednesday, February 24, 2021

Re: [MW:32001] Preheat temperature

Dear friend,

when ever joining of two different P nos ( 5A+4) welding, following points to be taken care :

1, Pre heating temp shall be maintained as higher Pno ( 5A)

2, PWHT temp shall be maintained as per higher Pno(5A)

3, Consumable shall be maintained as per lower Pno( 4)

Regards,

Sankaran.SP

Welding & Metallurgy expert.

On Wednesday, 24 February, 2021, 03:17:21 pm IST, Vishwas Keskar <vvkeskar123@gmail.com> wrote:

Apply the rules applicable for Higher P.No. of the two materials being welded.

P no 4 to P No 5A _ Apply criteria for P NO 5A materilas. Also consider pre heating addresed in WPS

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 07:13 EmaD FaRaHanI, <emad.farahani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all,
As Per ASME Sec VIII, appendix R preheat criteria are determined for different PNumbers.
But in case of welding of one BM from PNumber A to PNumber B, how can we determine the preheat criteria (temperature and thickness)?

Thanks,

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Re: [MW:31999] Preheat temperature

Apply the rules applicable for Higher P.No. of the two materials being welded.

P no 4 to P No 5A _ Apply criteria for P NO 5A materilas. Also consider pre heating addresed in WPS

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 07:13 EmaD FaRaHanI, <emad.farahani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all,
As Per ASME Sec VIII, appendix R preheat criteria are determined for different PNumbers.
But in case of welding of one BM from PNumber A to PNumber B, how can we determine the preheat criteria (temperature and thickness)?

Thanks,

--
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Re: [MW:31999] Preheat temperature

Plz refer non mandatory appendix R

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 8:43 AM EmaD FaRaHanI <emad.farahani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all,
As Per ASME Sec VIII, appendix R preheat criteria are determined for different PNumbers.
But in case of welding of one BM from PNumber A to PNumber B, how can we determine the preheat criteria (temperature and thickness)?

Thanks,

--
https://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
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Monday, February 22, 2021

[MW:31997] WELDING OF SUPPORT PAD ON TANK SHELL OUTSIDE WITH FULL OF WATER

Dear Experts,

Can anyone explain to me regarding welding of a support pad on the outer surface of Tank Shell with inside full of water and what code we can refer for this activity or an old WPS we may follow which we used during the fabrication or another method we can use because inside water and we will weld against water hence it will affect the properties of material.

My thinking is that the water would provide a heat sink that would cause severe quenching of the weld and cause cracking.

if we do preheat that is also not possible because of water inside and we can't control the preheat upto desired criteria.

Tank Shell LTCS material

Regards,

MD. SHOAIB ALAM

QC INSPECTOR (MECH)

WHR PROJECT, ADNOC

IWI LIMITED, ABUDHABI

Phone no: +971-565820166 (UAE)

+91-8879380116 (INDIA)

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Friday, February 19, 2021

[MW:31997] Preheat temperature

Hello all,

As Per ASME Sec VIII, appendix R preheat criteria are determined for different PNumbers.

But in case of welding of one BM from PNumber A to PNumber B, how can we determine the preheat criteria (temperature and thickness)?

Thanks,

--
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Thursday, February 18, 2021

Re: [MW:31997] Inter Granular Corrosion in Carbon Steels

Dear Friend , The IGSCC or intergranular stress corrosion is attributed to precipitation of chromium carbide at grain boundary. Also a favourable environment and a temperature range for sufficient time period boosts IGSCC .

On Tue 16 Feb, 2021, 12:06 Zacharias Rohith Joseph, <rohithjoseph18@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello everyone.,

Can someone pls explain the possibility of IGC in carbon steels. I was of the opinion that the same is more predominant in exotic steels like nickel or chrome based.

what can be possibility of IGC occurring in carbon steels?

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Tuesday, February 16, 2021

Re: [MW:31996] Inter Granular Corrosion in Carbon Steels

Carbon steel is not used when corrosion is envisaged in equipment service .

IGC is observed in TYP 304 materials

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:36 AM Zacharias Rohith Joseph <rohithjoseph18@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello everyone.,

Can someone pls explain the possibility of IGC in carbon steels. I was of the opinion that the same is more predominant in exotic steels like nickel or chrome based.

what can be possibility of IGC occurring in carbon steels?

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[MW:31995] Inter Granular Corrosion in Carbon Steels

Hello everyone.,

Can someone pls explain the possibility of IGC in carbon steels. I was of the opinion that the same is more predominant in exotic steels like nickel or chrome based.

what can be possibility of IGC occurring in carbon steels?

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Monday, February 15, 2021

[MW:31994] Different between B8M nut & A4-70 nut?

Hey Team,

I have one double regarding subject matter.

Subject : Different between B8M nut & A4-70 nut?

Pl. Let me a right path for me.

Regards,

Ankit Patel

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Sunday, February 14, 2021

Re: [MW:31993] Welding between api 5l X60 to AISI 4130

Hi!

You can use E10018D3 or E11018D3

Rega4ds

Hegde

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 at 13:26, 'seejo nereparambil' via Materials & Welding
<materials-welding@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear All,
Refer to below mail there is small correction * low alloy steel

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 at 10:31, seejo nereparambil
<seejonj@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,
We are in process of Proceedure qualification for CS to Low carbon steel. Hence ,i am seeking your advise to select suitable welding electrodes for welding between AISI 4130 to API 5L X60 material
Design code is ASME B 31.3 and qualification in accordance with SecIX, thickness is 14.27 mm

Kindly provide your recommendation

Rregards
Seejo

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 11:38, sunil kaushik
<sunilkaushik08@gmail.com> wrote:

PMI is the sorting method .you shoul go for the wet analysis testing.

On Wed, 3 Feb, 2021, 9:17 am Pravin Poornachandran, <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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[MW:31992] Welding between api 5l X60 to AISI 4130

Dear All,

Refer to below mail there is small correction * low alloy steel

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sun, 14 Feb 2021 at 10:31, seejo nereparambil
<seejonj@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Experts,
We are in process of Proceedure qualification for CS to Low carbon steel. Hence ,i am seeking your advise to select suitable welding electrodes for welding between AISI 4130 to API 5L X60 material
Design code is ASME B 31.3 and qualification in accordance with SecIX, thickness is 14.27 mm

Kindly provide your recommendation

Rregards
Seejo

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 11:38, sunil kaushik
<sunilkaushik08@gmail.com> wrote:

PMI is the sorting method .you shoul go for the wet analysis testing.

On Wed, 3 Feb, 2021, 9:17 am Pravin Poornachandran, <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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Thursday, February 11, 2021

Re: [MW:31991] ASME B31.3_2018- Table 331.1.1-PHWT minimumn Holding Time for base material thk-75mm

2 hours for 50 mm additional 15 minutes for 15~20 mm.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 1:33 PM Kannayeram Gnanapandithan <kgpandithan@gmail.com> wrote:

based on toughness requirement

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,
KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE, CSWIP 3.1,
ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,
ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,
LA ISO 9001-2015,
International Welding Engineer.
CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY
Mobile no: +919940739349

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 8:36 AM Chandru Sekar <chandruyou25@gmail.com> wrote:
Why they segregated as group and in which basis ?

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 08:31 Anban, <gane2478@hotmail.sg> wrote:
Dear Experts

Need your guidance in understanding PWHT minimum Holding Time base material thk.-65 ~ 75mm

P-No. 1, Group Nos. 1–3
Minimum Holding Time at Temperature for Control Thickness [Note (2)]
-Up to 50 mm (2 in.)-1 h/25 mm (1 hr/in.);15 min min.
-Over 50 mm (2 in.)-2 hr plus 15 min for each additional 25 mm (in.)

Best Regards
Ganesan

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Sunday, February 7, 2021

[MW:31989] Radiography magnification factor

Dear Sir,

With reference to the above subject, Please advise for Radiography magnification factor.How much acceptable limit for Radiography magnification as per ASME.

Please advise.

Regards

Manish Kumar

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Friday, February 5, 2021

Re: [MW:31989] Accuracy of PMI

I think many members have already advised any things. I have just to add that please consider the calibration and tolerance for the particular equipment being used and composition of the element(s) respectively.

Thanks,

Best Regards,

Rajnish

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On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 9:17, Pravin Poornachandran
<htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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Re: [MW:31987] Accuracy of PMI

Dear expert,

Truly appreciate all the comments and advise.

It really helps me to understand better on the testing method, chemical analysis and how I can explain to client.

Indeed it's client additional requirement which I feel it's not necessary because supplier has been supplying the same batch to other NACE project as well and there is no such issue at their site.

Thank you so much experts.

Best regards,

Pravin Poornachandran

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 at 11:06, Vinay Thattey <vinay.thattey@gmail.com> wrote:

depends on type of equipment , accuracy , calibration done . my practical experience is ... 2 to 3 % variation is possible in PMI

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 09:17, Pravin Poornachandran <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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Re: [MW:31987] ASME B31.3_2018- Table 331.1.1-PHWT minimumn Holding Time for base material thk-75mm

based on toughness requirement

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE, CSWIP 3.1,

ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,

LA ISO 9001-2015,

International Welding Engineer.

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 8:36 AM Chandru Sekar <chandruyou25@gmail.com> wrote:

Why they segregated as group and in which basis ?

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 08:31 Anban, <gane2478@hotmail.sg> wrote:
Dear Experts

Need your guidance in understanding PWHT minimum Holding Time base material thk.-65 ~ 75mm

P-No. 1, Group Nos. 1–3
Minimum Holding Time at Temperature for Control Thickness [Note (2)]
-Up to 50 mm (2 in.)-1 h/25 mm (1 hr/in.);15 min min.
-Over 50 mm (2 in.)-2 hr plus 15 min for each additional 25 mm (in.)

Best Regards
Ganesan

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Re: [MW:31985] Accuracy of PMI

depends on type of equipment , accuracy , calibration done . my practical experience is ... 2 to 3 % variation is possible in PMI

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 09:17, Pravin Poornachandran <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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Thursday, February 4, 2021

Re: [MW:31986] ASME B31.3_2018- Table 331.1.1-PHWT minimumn Holding Time for base material thk-75mm

Why they segregated as group and in which basis ?

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, 08:31 Anban, <gane2478@hotmail.sg> wrote:

Dear Experts

Need your guidance in understanding PWHT minimum Holding Time base material thk.-65 ~ 75mm

P-No. 1, Group Nos. 1–3
Minimum Holding Time at Temperature for Control Thickness [Note (2)]
-Up to 50 mm (2 in.)-1 h/25 mm (1 hr/in.);15 min min.
-Over 50 mm (2 in.)-2 hr plus 15 min for each additional 25 mm (in.)

Best Regards
Ganesan

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Re: [MW:31984] Accuracy of PMI

PMI is the sorting method .you shoul go for the wet analysis testing.

On Wed, 3 Feb, 2021, 9:17 am Pravin Poornachandran, <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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[MW:31983] ASME B31.3_2018- Table 331.1.1-PHWT minimumn Holding Time for base material thk-75mm

Dear Experts

Need your guidance in understanding PWHT minimum Holding Time base material thk.-65 ~ 75mm

P-No. 1, Group Nos. 1–3

Minimum Holding Time at Temperature for Control Thickness [Note (2)]

-Up to 50 mm (2 in.)-1 h/25 mm (1 hr/in.);15 min min.

-Over 50 mm (2 in.)-2 hr plus 15 min for each additional 25 mm (in.)

Best Regards

Ganesan

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Wednesday, February 3, 2021

Re: [MW:31982] Accuracy of PMI

I want to understand that the PMI was already done on the filler material applied to your component and I also assume that the chemical composition of the filler presented by your supplier obviously does so before the filler is applied, this is what I can understand about your case. I'm going to give my comment based on ASME, because that's what I know:

(1) P + F = A

where:
P (parental) refers to the P number or classification of the base material.

F (filler) refers to the filler material, that is, your electrode.

A refers to the material already applied to the component

Then the PMI reading of your weld bead will never be the same as the chemical composition of your contribution, this is a fairly common error for not knowing and understanding the formula (1), that's what I can tell you based on what I could understand your problem, since for me it is not clear.
Regards!.

El mié, 3 feb 2021 a las 0:40, 'james gerald' via Materials & Welding (<materials-welding@googlegroups.com>) escribió:

Dear Pravin,

Normally PMI is performed for High alloy welding consumables to ensure that there is no mix up of consumable during welding and it is not an accurate method and tolerance is always allowed; PMI performed by below methods.

1. X-Ray Fluoroscopy
2. Optical Emission spectrometer
3. Atomic Emission spectrometer
4. Volumetric Analysis (Chemical Analysis).

For carbon steel used for NACE service to ensure Nickel Kept within 1%, we control the issue of welding consumable from the stores. Only welding consumable containing 3.1/3.2 certificate batch Numbers are identified and electrode issue slip from the supervisor to stores will contain the batch Number.

But your case seems to be special since carbon steel is not PMI tested but it is your client requirement and need to be complied.

Moreover it is understood from your mail that you have performed Chemical Analysis (volumetric Analysis) at chemical lab which always gives accurate results.

Below are considered the way forward for your problem.

1. Check the Batch Number to ensure traceability to certificate to ascertain the use of correct welding consumable.
2. Perform proper sampling and redo the test.
3. Perform an Hardness test. The purpose of restricting Nickel is to ensure that it does increase the Hardenability (Hardness).
4. Check whether it is a Specification requirement or Additional client requirement and then take up with the client accordingly.

Thanks & Regards
J.Gerald Jayakumar

On Wednesday, 3 February, 2021, 09:17:31 am IST, Pravin Poornachandran <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.
Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.
I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,
Pravin Poornachandran

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Ing. José Juan Jiménez Alejandro

Independent Consultant in Parts

and Pressure Equipment

SUMMIT MÉXICO - TPI

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Re: [MW:31981] Accuracy of PMI

Dear Pravin,

Normally PMI is performed for High alloy welding consumables to ensure that there is no mix up of consumable during welding and it is not an accurate method and tolerance is always allowed; PMI performed by below methods.

1. X-Ray Fluoroscopy

2. Optical Emission spectrometer

3. Atomic Emission spectrometer

4. Volumetric Analysis (Chemical Analysis).

For carbon steel used for NACE service to ensure Nickel Kept within 1%, we control the issue of welding consumable from the stores. Only welding consumable containing 3.1/3.2 certificate batch Numbers are identified and electrode issue slip from the supervisor to stores will contain the batch Number.

But your case seems to be special since carbon steel is not PMI tested but it is your client requirement and need to be complied.

Moreover it is understood from your mail that you have performed Chemical Analysis (volumetric Analysis) at chemical lab which always gives accurate results.

Below are considered the way forward for your problem.

1. Check the Batch Number to ensure traceability to certificate to ascertain the use of correct welding consumable.

2. Perform proper sampling and redo the test.

3. Perform an Hardness test. The purpose of restricting Nickel is to ensure that it does increase the Hardenability (Hardness).

4. Check whether it is a Specification requirement or Additional client requirement and then take up with the client accordingly.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

On Wednesday, 3 February, 2021, 09:17:31 am IST, Pravin Poornachandran <htcispravin@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.

Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorised laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.

I did contacted consumable supplier and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,

Pravin Poornachandran

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[MW:31980] FW: Accuracy of PMI

Hi Pravin,

What method was used, XRF or OES? XRF will not reveal "C" and other lighter elements, "S", "P"…

If you have doubtful results with one method , try other.

Often the accuracy will depend on the equipment calibration, cleanliness , number of shots/reading taken and more..

Thanks.

Pradip Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.

Independent & Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pradip-goswami-2999855/

Email:pgoswami@rogers.com,pradip.goswami@gmail.com

Cell/Whasapp:1-905-9793232

From: Pravin Poornachandran <htcispravin@gmail.com>
Sent: February 2, 2021 10:44 PM
To: 'Bijay' via Materials & Welding <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Accuracy of PMI

Dear expert,

Good day.

Recently I performed WPS for ER70S-G for nace requirement project.

Based on welding consumable mill certificate as per EN10204 3.1, Ni <1% and these chemical analysis is conducted in authorized laboratory following the method specified in industrial code. It is laborious procedure and accurate.

But when we perform PMI, Ni values shows 1.2-1.5, which client is questioning now.

I did contact consumable supplies and they are very certain Ni is less than 1%.

Can anyone advice how should I handle this situation.

Best regards,

Pravin Poornachandran

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