Re: [MW:35070] Re: PQR

Please explain how we can select material from mtc of electrode

Thanks & Best Regards
Saleem manhappulath

Mob:+966533595849
WhatsApp:+919526445936

From iPhone xs

On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 6:28 PM, Mohd Siraj <mohd52100@gmail.com> wrote:

means you have electrode and looking for Base metal to weld? or you means material of electrode, in that case just look into MTC/filler wire certificate?

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[MW:35070] Bevel degree in thick plate

Concern is to confirm that i am welding as per approved WPS 8 mm Shell course with 60 degree bevel fit-up both sides,  and if i fabricate 130mm thick shell course weld what should be  the appropriate bevel degree (As i don't have WPS now in my hand).

Materials are M.S. A36 for both tanks.

 Designing Code is API 650

Regards,

Mashood Ahmed Khan

EPIC Pvt. Ltd.

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[MW:35070] test coupon dimension for mechanical testing

I would like to know about the dimensions of the test coupon plate which needs to be cut for mechanical testing , as per ASME SEC IX.

Thickness are 6mm, 20mm 25mm.

Regards,

Mashood Ahmed Khan

Site Engineer

EPIC Pvt. Ltd.

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Re: [MW:35075] Bevel degree in thick plate

Dear,

When welding according to an approved Welding Procedure Specification (WPS) for a shell course with a 60-degree bevel fit-up, and then needing to fabricate a thicker shell course, it is crucial to ensure the bevel angle is appropriate for the increased thickness. The following considerations will help determine the appropriate bevel angle for a 130mm thick shell course, assuming materials are ASTM A36 and the design code is API 650:

1. Standard Bevel Angles: For thicker materials, bevel angles are adjusted to ensure proper penetration and weld quality. While a 60-degree included angle is commonly used for thinner sections like 8mm, thicker sections often require adjustments to the bevel angle to accommodate the increased volume of the weld metal and ensure adequate fusion.

2. API 650 Recommendations: API 650 does not prescribe specific bevel angles but emphasizes the importance of joint design to ensure quality and structural integrity. Generally, the bevel angle must provide sufficient access for welding and ensure proper fusion.

3. Typical Bevel Angles for Thick Plates:

   • For plates up to 25mm (1 inch), a typical included angle is 60 degrees.
   • For plates from 25mm to 50mm (1 to 2 inches), the included angle may reduce to around 45-50 degrees.
   • For plates thicker than 50mm, included angles often range between 30 to 45 degrees, with considerations for double-sided welding and multi-pass welding techniques.

4. Fabrication Practices: For a 130mm thick shell course, it is common to use a compound bevel or a J-groove to reduce the amount of weld metal required and to facilitate better welding conditions.

Given these considerations, an appropriate approach for a 130mm thick shell course with ASTM A36 material under API 650 might include:

• Single-V Bevel: If using a single V-bevel, an included angle of around 30-45 degrees might be appropriate. This angle allows for deep penetration while managing the volume of weld metal needed.
• Double-V Bevel: For very thick plates, a double-V bevel could be used to balance the welding from both sides, typically with each side having an included angle of around 30 degrees.

Recommendation: For a 130mm thick shell course, a 30 to 45-degree bevel angle should be appropriate. A double-V bevel (each side 30 degrees) might also be considered for such thickness to ensure welding quality and manage distortion.

Always ensure that any change in bevel angle or welding parameters is reflected in an updated WPS, approved by the relevant authority or quality assurance team, to maintain compliance with API 650 and ensure structural integrity.

AB

On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 at 15:53, Mashood Khan <mashood@epic.com.pk> wrote:

Concern is to confirm that i am welding as per approved WPS 8 mm Shell course with 60 degree bevel fit-up both sides,  and if i fabricate 130mm thick shell course weld what should be  the appropriate bevel degree (As i don't have WPS now in my hand).

Materials are M.S. A36 for both tanks.

 Designing Code is API 650

Regards,

Mashood Ahmed Khan

EPIC Pvt. Ltd.

P:03462794988, 0309-8885421

E: Mashood@epic.com.pk, mashoodrak1@gmail.com            

 "The man who best understands time is he who is not taken aback by its proceedings." 

 (Ali Ibn Abi Talib)

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Re: [MW:35075] test coupon dimension for mechanical testing

Dear,

According to ASME Section IX, the dimensions of the test coupon plate for mechanical testing depend on the type of test being performed and the thickness of the material. Here is an overview based on the thicknesses you mentioned (6mm, 20mm, and 25mm):

1. Tensile Test Specimens:

For tensile tests, the standard dimensions for the test coupon are defined in QW-462.1(a) and QW-462.1(b) of ASME Section IX.

• Plate Thickness ≤ 8 mm (e.g., 6 mm):

  • For plate thickness less than or equal to 8 mm, the entire thickness of the test specimen shall be tested.
  • The specimen width shall be 12.5 mm.
  • The length of the reduced section should be at least 50 mm for the tensile test.

• Plate Thickness > 8 mm (e.g., 20 mm and 25 mm):

  • For thicker plates, the thickness of the test specimen taken from the coupon should match the thickness of the welded plate.
  • The width of the test specimen is typically 12.5 mm.
  • The length of the reduced section should be at least 50 mm for the tensile test.

2. Bend Test Specimens:

For bend tests, the dimensions of the test coupons are specified in QW-462.2 of ASME Section IX.

• Plate Thickness ≤ 10 mm (e.g., 6 mm):

  • The width of the bend specimen is 38 mm.
  • The length of the bend specimen should be sufficient to ensure that a 180-degree bend can be made without the specimen being constrained.

• Plate Thickness > 10 mm (e.g., 20 mm and 25 mm):

  • The width of the bend specimen is typically 38 mm.
  • The thickness of the bend specimen should be 10 mm, so for plates thicker than 10 mm, the bend specimen is typically machined down to 10 mm thickness.

3. Charpy V-Notch Impact Test Specimens (if required):

For impact testing, the dimensions are given in QW-462.3 of ASME Section IX.

• Standard Charpy V-Notch Test Specimens:

  • The standard specimen size is 10 mm x 10 mm x 55 mm with a V-notch.

• Sub-Size Specimens:

  • If the material thickness does not allow for a full-size specimen, sub-size specimens can be used, e.g., 10 mm x 7.5 mm or 10 mm x 5 mm.

Summary of Specimen Dimensions by Thickness:

• 6 mm Thickness:

  • Tensile: Full thickness, 12.5 mm width, 50 mm reduced section length.
  • Bend: 38 mm width, full thickness.

• 20 mm Thickness:

  • Tensile: Full thickness, 12.5 mm width, 50 mm reduced section length.
  • Bend: 38 mm width, machined down to 10 mm thickness.

• 25 mm Thickness:

  • Tensile: Full thickness, 12.5 mm width, 50 mm reduced section length.
  • Bend: 38 mm width, machined down to 10 mm thickness.

It is essential to follow the exact requirements specified in ASME Section IX for the dimensions of test coupons to ensure compliance and the validity of the mechanical tests.

AB

On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 at 15:53, Mashood Khan <mashood@epic.com.pk> wrote:

I would like to know about the dimensions of the test coupon plate which needs to be cut for mechanical testing , as per ASME SEC IX.

Thickness are 6mm, 20mm 25mm.

Regards,

Mashood Ahmed Khan

Site Engineer

EPIC Pvt. Ltd.

P:03462794988, 0309-8885421

E: Mashood@epic.com.pk, mashoodrak1@gmail.com            

 "The man who best understands time is he who is not taken aback by its proceedings." 

 (Ali Ibn Abi Talib)

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Re: [MW:35057] REQUEST

Pl. clarify whether it is aluminium-coated mild steel, pure Aluminium or Aluminium alloys.

If it is al. alloy, it's grade. 

Sridhar.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2024 at 20:34, Eseosa Agho Otoghile <saaoplus77@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Guys, 

Please what kind of filler wire is used for the welding of Aluminium Steel.

Thank you and Best Regards, 

Eseosa Otoghile 

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Re: [MW:35059] Re: API 650 Bottom Plate Distortion

Hello it depend of tank diameter:

API 650 2021  7.5.3   Roundness

 

Radii measured at 0.3 m (1 ft) above the bottom corner weld shall not exceed the following tolerances:

Tank Diameter m (ft)

Radius Tolerance mm (in.)

< 12 (40)                                                                              ± 13 (1/2)

From 12 (40) to < 45 (150)                                                   ± 19 (3/4) 

From 45 (150) to < 75 (250)                                                  ± 25 (1)

� 75 (250)                                                                           ± 32 (11/4)

El jueves, 6 de junio de 2024 a la(s) 3:52:12 a.m. UTC-6, Abd Ur Rehman escribió:

how much tolerance is acceptable in circumference (API650) storage tanks.

On Wed, May 29, 2024 at 12:11 PM Anand ch <chana...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Abd Ur Rehman,

Out-of-plane distortion equal to 1 percent of the tank radius is considered acceptable."
While that's not an API requirement, that should be a measure of industry standard, 

and that plate distraction not affected on length of the plate that is acceptable range means it will accept the bottom plate 

On Saturday 25 May, 2024 at 11:06:14 am UTC+5:30 Abd Ur Rehman wrote:

Hello everyone hope u all be fine 
my question is that , as per ur experince how much API 650 Bottom Plate Distortion is acceptable .

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[MW:35060] Combination of welding process in a welder certificate

Hey Dear;

I've  reviewed welder certificate for combination of two process SMAW +FCAW as per AWS D1.6 and I've refused this certificate because of 

1- the supporting WPS's is made individually and not combined WPS for SMAW+FCAW together

2- some essential variables are different for the two process.

3- range of deposited weld metal is different.

4-electrod type is different.

My Question here;

Is the AWS D1.6 accepted combination in process for welder qualification and certificate??

 

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Re: [MW:35061] SS clading on CS

It is better to use 309MoL

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,

LA ISO 9001-2015,

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 1:21 PM Mashood Khan <mashood@epic.com.pk> wrote:

Dear, 

The current circumstances is ,

Vessel is SS316 and I am welding a SS316 4mm plate on the CS flange as a cladding.

I want to know if I weld the SS316 Cladding plate on CS Flange with SS309. is it any problem with their composition?

Second is that SS309 is compatible with SS316 if I totally weld with SS309 Electrode.

Regards,

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Re: [MW:35062] SS clading on CS

Dear, 

Use 309Mo for better results 

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 1:21 PM Mashood Khan <mashood@epic.com.pk> wrote:

Dear, 

The current circumstances is ,

Vessel is SS316 and I am welding a SS316 4mm plate on the CS flange as a cladding.

I want to know if I weld the SS316 Cladding plate on CS Flange with SS309. is it any problem with their composition?

Second is that SS309 is compatible with SS316 if I totally weld with SS309 Electrode.

Regards,

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[MW:35065] PQR

Dear Team

  we have plane to PQR with E11018-g electrode as per Sec ix, kindly suggest the material for mentioned electrode 

thanks

saleem

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Re: [MW:35066] Re: API 650 Bottom Plate Distortion

50mm acceptable, lets know if it tank is in service?, refer api 653., by the way bottom plate distortion refer as settlement, better to refer with correct terminology.

On Friday, June 7, 2024 at 9:20:00 PM UTC+3 agum...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello it depend of tank diameter:

API 650 2021  7.5.3   Roundness

 

Radii measured at 0.3 m (1 ft) above the bottom corner weld shall not exceed the following tolerances:

Tank Diameter m (ft)

Radius Tolerance mm (in.)

< 12 (40)                                                                              ± 13 (1/2)

From 12 (40) to < 45 (150)                                                   ± 19 (3/4) 

From 45 (150) to < 75 (250)                                                  ± 25 (1)

� 75 (250)                                                                           ± 32 (11/4)

El jueves, 6 de junio de 2024 a la(s) 3:52:12 a.m. UTC-6, Abd Ur Rehman escribió:

how much tolerance is acceptable in circumference (API650) storage tanks.

On Wed, May 29, 2024 at 12:11 PM Anand ch <chana...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Abd Ur Rehman,

Out-of-plane distortion equal to 1 percent of the tank radius is considered acceptable."
While that's not an API requirement, that should be a measure of industry standard, 

and that plate distraction not affected on length of the plate that is acceptable range means it will accept the bottom plate 

On Saturday 25 May, 2024 at 11:06:14 am UTC+5:30 Abd Ur Rehman wrote:

Hello everyone hope u all be fine 
my question is that , as per ur experince how much API 650 Bottom Plate Distortion is acceptable .

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[MW:35066] Re: PQR

means you have electrode and looking for Base metal to weld? or you means material of electrode, in that case just look into MTC/filler wire certificate?

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Re: [MW:35068] SS clading on CS

dear,

what if you could do weld overlay  (similar to buildup with same chemistry) ?, welding plate on flage may be tricky to match curvature? what you say?

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 9:59:00 AM UTC+3 Parminder Singh wrote:

Dear, 

Use 309Mo for better results 

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 1:21 PM Mashood Khan <mas...@epic.com.pk> wrote:

Dear, 

The current circumstances is ,

Vessel is SS316 and I am welding a SS316 4mm plate on the CS flange as a cladding.

I want to know if I weld the SS316 Cladding plate on CS Flange with SS309. is it any problem with their composition?

Second is that SS309 is compatible with SS316 if I totally weld with SS309 Electrode.

Regards,

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Re: [MW:35068] Selection of Welding Electrodes

API-582.

On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 5:04:52 AM UTC+3 Amol Betkar wrote:

Dear,

As a Welding Engineer, selecting the appropriate electrode or filler material for a job involves several considerations. Both the ASME and EN standards provide guidelines to assist in making these choices.

For instance, in the case of welding S355J2 to S355J2, you would consider the following:

1. Material Compatibility: Ensure the electrode or filler material is compatible with the base metal. For S355J2, a common filler material would be one that matches or exceeds the mechanical properties of the base metal.

2. Mechanical Properties: The chosen filler material should meet or exceed the tensile strength, toughness, and other mechanical properties required for the joint.

3. Welding Process: The welding process being used (e.g., SMAW, GTAW, GMAW) will also influence the choice of electrode or filler material.

4. Standards and Specifications:

   • ASME Section II Part C provides specifications for welding rods, electrodes, and filler metals.
   • EN ISO 14341 for welding consumables, wire electrodes, and filler materials for gas shielded metal arc welding of non-alloy and fine grain steels.

For welding S355J2 to S355J2, a commonly used electrode is E7018 (according to AWS) or an equivalent from EN, such as E 42 4 B 42 H5 (according to EN ISO 2560). This electrode is chosen because it provides good toughness and meets the mechanical property requirements of S355J2.

Procedure:

1. Identify the base material properties: S355J2 is a structural steel with good weldability and impact resistance.
2. Match the filler material: Choose an electrode like E7018 that has matching mechanical properties and meets the required standards.
3. Verify standards: Ensure the selected filler material complies with ASME Section II Part C or the relevant EN standards.
4. Weld Procedure Specification (WPS): Develop a WPS that includes the selected electrode, welding parameters, preheat and post-weld heat treatment (if necessary), and other relevant details.

I hope this provides a clear approach to selecting the appropriate electrode or filler material for welding S355J2 to S355J2.

AB

On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 at 12:29, Shivasankar A <shivasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Team,

As a Welding Engineer, How can i Choose the Electrode/Filler material for a Job.

Is there any Guidelines in ASME / EN.

For Example: S355J2 to S355J2 which electrode i will use and how?

If any guideline from ASME / EN means Better.

Regards,

A.Shivasankar

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Amol K.B

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Re: [MW:35055] SS clading on CS

Since you are using SS316 to CS, it will be appropriate to use E309Mo or ER309Mo in place of E309 

as SS 316 contains Mo besides Cr & Ni.

C Sridhar

On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 at 13:42, Amol Betkar <amolbetkar90@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mashood,

When welding stainless steel to carbon steel or when dealing with different grades of stainless steel, the choice of filler material is critical to ensure the integrity and performance of the weld.

Welding SS316 to a CS Flange with SS309

1. Using SS309 as a filler for welding SS316 to CS:

   • Composition and Compatibility:
     • SS309: This grade is often used as a filler metal for welding dissimilar steels, including stainless steels to carbon steels. SS309 contains higher chromium and nickel content than SS316, which helps in accommodating the differences in thermal expansion and enhancing corrosion resistance at the weld interface.
     • SS316 and Carbon Steel (CS): Carbon steel (CS) has a different composition and thermal properties compared to SS316. SS316 is an austenitic stainless steel with molybdenum added for improved corrosion resistance.
     • SS309 filler metal is designed to bridge the differences in composition between SS316 and CS. It can handle the dilution from the carbon steel and provide a good quality weld with adequate corrosion resistance and mechanical properties.
   • Potential Issues: Using SS309 should not present significant problems in terms of composition. The SS309 filler is designed to manage the differences in expansion rates and chemical composition between stainless and carbon steel, making it a suitable choice for cladding SS316 on a CS flange.

2. Using SS309 for welding SS316 completely:

   • Compatibility of SS309 and SS316:
     • SS309 is generally compatible with SS316, though it is typically used for welding dissimilar metals.
     • Mechanical Properties: SS309 will have slightly different mechanical properties and corrosion resistance compared to SS316. While SS309 is more oxidation-resistant at higher temperatures, SS316 offers better overall corrosion resistance due to its higher molybdenum content.
     • Weld Characteristics: When welding SS316 with SS309, the resulting weld may have different properties than a weld made entirely with a filler matching SS316. This could include slight differences in corrosion resistance and mechanical properties in the weld zone.
   • Potential Issues: While there is generally no problem using SS309 to weld SS316, the resulting weld might not fully match the performance characteristics of the base SS316 material, particularly in environments where SS316's specific properties are crucial (such as resistance to certain types of corrosion).

Recommendations:

• For Cladding Application: Using SS309 to weld the SS316 cladding plate to the CS flange is appropriate and should not cause significant issues in terms of composition or weld quality.
• For Welding SS316 Components: If the application demands the specific properties of SS316, it is preferable to use a filler that matches SS316 to ensure consistent properties throughout the weld. However, if slight differences in properties are acceptable, SS309 can be used without major concerns.

In summary, SS309 is a suitable filler material for welding SS316 to a CS flange and is generally compatible with SS316 for welding purposes, though attention should be given to the specific application requirements.

On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 at 13:21, Mashood Khan <mashood@epic.com.pk> wrote:

Dear, 

The current circumstances is ,

Vessel is SS316 and I am welding a SS316 4mm plate on the CS flange as a cladding.

I want to know if I weld the SS316 Cladding plate on CS Flange with SS309. is it any problem with their composition?

Second is that SS309 is compatible with SS316 if I totally weld with SS309 Electrode.

Regards,

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06/05/24, 12:42:33 PM

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