Re: [MW:32579] SA 516 GR 70- AVOIDANCE OF PWHT - 40 mm thickness

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From: Prasad Ghanekar <prsgne@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 21:30:40 +0530
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Subject: Re: [MW:32578] SA 516 GR 70- AVOIDANCE OF PWHT - 40 mm thickness
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
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In my opinion As per ASME code, acceptable, no PWHT required for given
condition if welded with austenitic stainless Steel consumables.
However check service condition for dissimilar metal exposure to service
fluid and environment.

Regards,
Prasad G.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2021, 18:03 , <pgoswami@rogers.com> wrote:

> Hi Vishwas,
>
> Your query does not indicate the thickness , which is most critical aspec=
t
> of choosing the PWHT cycle.
>
> Irrespective of that, it=E2=80=99s not advisable to leave one joint, *esp=
ecially
> the closing joint* without PWHT and commission the vessel in service. You
> may better perform a LOCAL PWHT at the site.
>
> Also using dissimilar consumable is encouraged , only if dissimilar metal
> welding is involved. In this case use of dissimilar welding consumable is
> not desired, that may add undue thermal stress in service on the joint
> welded.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Pradip Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.
>
> Cell/Whasapp:1-905-9793232
>
>
>
> *From:* james gerald <gerry_tup@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* October 29, 2021 6:46 AM
> *To:* materials-welding@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [MW:32577] SA 516 GR 70- AVOIDANCE OF PWHT - 40 mm
> thickness
>
>
>
> Please experts to share on Designer's view with respect to different
> lateral expansion though Design temperature is +250degC
>
>
>
> *Thanks & Regards*
>
> *J.Gerald Jayakumar*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, 29 October, 2021, 11:53:02 am GMT+4, Vishwas Keskar Welding
> Manager WELDING <vvkeskar123@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> The vessel details are
>
> MOC - SA 516 GR 70
>
> DIAMETER- 4020mm
>
> LENGTH - 37 MTR
>
> MDMT =3D - 50 Deg C to + 250 Deg C
>
> SERVICE - Non lethal /No Hydrogen Service
>
>
>
> We are proposing Vessel length build up as per FURNACE LENGTH CAPACITY(24
> m maximum) and one joint WITHOUT PWHT ( JOINING PWHTed sections earlier =
at
> site )
>
> Proposal -
>
> 1.MOC - SA 516 GR 70
>
> 2.BUTTERING - ENiCrFe2 on 24 m section end and other at 13 m section end)
>
> 3,PWHT (section PWHT - One of 24 length and other 13 m)
> of - 620 Deg C - 125 MINUTES
>
> 4.Bevel preparation
>
> 5.NDT - DPT
>
> Welding at site ( 24 m section with 13 m section) - ENiCrFe2 OR E309
>
> 6.NDT - DPT AND UT
>
>
>
> Expert opinion please and share experience if any
>
>
>
> Vishwas
>
>
>
> --
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<div dir=3D"auto">In my opinion As per ASME code, acceptable, no PWHT requi=
red for given condition if welded with austenitic stainless Steel consumabl=
es.<div dir=3D"auto">However check service condition for dissimilar metal e=
xposure to service fluid and environment.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"auto">Prasad G.</div></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 29=
Oct 2021, 18:03 , &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pgoswami@rogers.com">pgoswami@roge=
rs.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"=
EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div c=
lass=3D"m_-9143628470932963806WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hi Vishwas,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Your query does not indicate the =
thickness , which is most critical aspect of choosing the PWHT cycle. <u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"=
>Irrespective of that, it=E2=80=99s not advisable to leave one joint, <u>es=
pecially the closing joint</u> without PWHT and commission the vessel in se=
rvice. You may better perform a LOCAL PWHT at the site. <u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Also using di=
ssimilar consumable is encouraged , only if dissimilar metal welding is inv=
olved. In this case use of dissimilar welding consumable is not desired, th=
at may add undue thermal stress in service on the joint welded. <u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
2.0pt">Thanks.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Taho=
ma&quot;,sans-serif">Pradip Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">Cell/Whasapp:1-905-9793232</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-t=
op:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b=
>From:</b> james gerald &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerry_tup@yahoo.com" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">gerry_tup@yahoo.com</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b>=
October 29, 2021 6:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:materials-welding=
@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">materials-welding@g=
ooglegroups.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [MW:32577] SA 516 GR 70- AVOIDAN=
CE OF PWHT - 40 mm thickness<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">Plea=
se experts to share on Designer&#39;s view with respect to different latera=
l expansion though Design temperature is +250degC<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><d=
iv><div><p><em><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#652191">Thanks &amp; Regards</span></em><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">J.Gerald Jayakumar</span></strong><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div></div></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvet=
ica&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div></div><div id=3D=
"m_-9143628470932963806ydp6ffa7bc0yahoo_quoted_5925255893"><div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetic=
a&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">On Friday, 29 October, 2021, 11:53:02 am =
GMT+4, Vishwas Keskar Welding Manager WELDING &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vvkeska=
r123@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">vvkeskar123@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif=
;color:#26282a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,san=
s-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><div id=3D=
"m_-9143628470932963806ydp6ffa7bc0yiv3628008508"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#26282a">The vessel details are=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helve=
tica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">MOC - SA 516 GR 70=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">DIAMETER- 402=
0mm<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26=
282a">LENGTH - 37 MTR<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#26282a">MDMT =3D - 50 Deg C to=C2=A0 + 250 Deg C=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">SERVIC=
E - Non lethal /No Hydrogen Service=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">We are proposing Vessel le=
ngth build up as per FURNACE LENGTH CAPACITY(24 m maximum) and one joint WI=
THOUT PWHT=C2=A0 ( JOINING PWHTed sections earlier at site )<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">Proposal -=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26=
282a">1.MOC - SA 516 GR 70=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica=
&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">2.BUTTERING - ENiCrFe2 on 24 m section end=
and other at 13 m section end)<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">3,PWHT (section PWHT - One of 24=C2=A0 leng=
th and other 13 m)<br>=C2=A0of=C2=A0 - 620 Deg C - 125 MINUTES=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">4.Beve=
l preparation=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#26282a">5.NDT - DPT=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p=
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">Welding at site ( 24 m section with 1=
3 m section) - ENiCrFe2 OR E309=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p=
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a">6.NDT - DPT AND UT<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
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--0000000000008428a205cf7fee0a--

Sec VIII,Div1:-

40 mm thickness calls for PWHT irrespective of service,  lethal or Non- Lethal. 

Would like to see in  DIV1,which code clause or code case,  allows application of buttering on C.S, PWHT of individual sections, welding of the closing seam by austenitic filler metal with no PWHT.

Thanks. 

P.Goswami. 

Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.