Thursday, September 30, 2010

Re: [MW:7291] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Dear Mr.Satish
 
You may give a go ahead by considerably increasing the holding time, could be double the time specified by the spec while you also consider other factors of safety and design.
 
Regards
 
J.N.Murthy
Engg.QA/QC.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Satish Hingalkar <shingalkar@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
 
Thanks a lot, i search in ASME B31.3 below bold sentence,but i couldn't find,can u please help me for this.,where it is exactly so that i can decline this deviation.
 
Please help me if possible uregently because my PM pressuring me to reply that will be appreciated.
 
Waiting for reply.
 
Regards,
Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end "painting/coating may mask the leak".

Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro.

In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.

 

From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for prompt reply

Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3

 

As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??

 

As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.

 

Regards,

Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code.

ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)

 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 Dear Members,

 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??

 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.

 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.

 

Regards,

Satish


 


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Re: [MW:7294] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Satish ,
 
What code you followed ?
 
If you followed ASME 31.3 , you MAY be  full painted as per paint spcification before hydrotest . So it is matter of betweenContractor and Client agreement .
 
If contractor wish to do , he can ......but contractor need get a permission from client .
 
Suresh
 
91 92  92 905 905

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Satish Hingalkar <shingalkar@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Members,
 
Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??
 
Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.
 
Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.
 
Regards,
Satish

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Thanks  & Best Regards,

Suresh

Mobile No: 91-92 92 905 905

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[MW:7293] HEAT & LOT NO

Dear friends,

 What is Heat No. and Lot No.

Thanks and regards
VK.Bhuvan

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RE: [MW:7294] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Dear Satish,
 
I dont thing that any paint could resist a hoop stress than steel, the only issue regarding paint and hidrotest that i can find is curing time (if paint is internal).
 
Hope to be helpful.
 
Alexis
 

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:47:21 +0400
Subject: Re: [MW:7287] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?
From: shingalkar@gmail.com
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

Hi,
 
Thanks a lot, i search in ASME B31.3 below bold sentence,but i couldn't find,can u please help me for this.,where it is exactly so that i can decline this deviation.
 
Please help me if possible uregently because my PM pressuring me to reply that will be appreciated.
 
Waiting for reply.
 
Regards,
Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end "painting/coating may mask the leak".

Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro.

In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.

 

From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for prompt reply

Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3

 

As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??

 

As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.

 

Regards,

Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code.

ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)

 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 Dear Members,

 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??

 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.

 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.

 

Regards,

Satish


 



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Re: [MW:7295] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Hai,
     Please refer B 31.3 - 345.3.1 preparation for leak test

--- On Thu, 9/30/10, Satish Hingalkar <shingalkar@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Satish Hingalkar <shingalkar@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:7287] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 30, 2010, 4:17 PM

Hi,
 
Thanks a lot, i search in ASME B31.3 below bold sentence,but i couldn't find,can u please help me for this.,where it is exactly so that i can decline this deviation.
 
Please help me if possible uregently because my PM pressuring me to reply that will be appreciated.
 
Waiting for reply.
 
Regards,
Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end "painting/coating may mask the leak".

Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro.

In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.

 

From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for prompt reply

Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3

 

As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??

 

As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.

 

Regards,

Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code.

ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)

 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 Dear Members,

 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??

 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.

 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.

 

Regards,

Satish


 

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Re: [MW:7297] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?






FYI:
From time to time, questions are asked regarding painting or coating of a pressure vessel or even a pressure retaining item prior to hydrotesting.

I was forwarded this interesting article that was published in Materials Evaluation, September, 1993. The article is titled " Don't Paint Before Hydrostatic Testing" and is authored by Jon Batey.

To summarize, the author explains how the various construction codes and in-service repair codes like the NBIC are either silent or briefly mention caution on the issue of painting or coating before hydrostatic testing.

Several tests were actually conducted on a 4" Schedule 40 carbon steel pipe that was internally pressurized with specific hold times at 1100 (30 min), 2000 (10 min) and 2400 psig (5 min). The pressure was increased in 100 psig increments. The various coating systems that were evaluated consisted of;

- vinyl finish over inorganic zinc primer
- vinyl finish over vinyl primer
- epoxy finish or epoxy primer

The pipe section was pre-dilled with twelve, small diameter thru holes (0.0135" and 0.020") to simulate weld or fabrication defects.

The results of the pressure tests revealed some interesting results;

- in a test pressure range of 325 psi to 1125 psi, the vinyl coating systems failed. At the onset of failure, the vinyl coating locally disbonded into a blister that ruptured.

- the epoxy system adhered and did not disbond even at 2425 psig pressure.

So, you may want to think twice during fabrication of pressure retaining items to coat after hydrostatic testing to make it easier for your AI.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Satish Hingalkar <shingalkar@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
 
Thanks a lot, i search in ASME B31.3 below bold sentence,but i couldn't find,can u please help me for this.,where it is exactly so that i can decline this deviation.
 
Please help me if possible uregently because my PM pressuring me to reply that will be appreciated.
 
Waiting for reply.
 
Regards,
Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end "painting/coating may mask the leak".

Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro.

In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.

 

From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for prompt reply

Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3

 

As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??

 

As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.

 

Regards,

Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code.

ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)

 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 Dear Members,

 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??

 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.

 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.

 

Regards,

Satish


 


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Re: [MW:7287] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Hi,
 
Thanks a lot, i search in ASME B31.3 below bold sentence,but i couldn't find,can u please help me for this.,where it is exactly so that i can decline this deviation.
 
Please help me if possible uregently because my PM pressuring me to reply that will be appreciated.
 
Waiting for reply.
 
Regards,
Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end "painting/coating may mask the leak".

Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro.

In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.

 

From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for prompt reply

Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3

 

As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??

 

As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.

 

Regards,

Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code.

ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)

 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 Dear Members,

 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??

 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.

 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.

 

Regards,

Satish


 


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The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

[MW:7288] material requirement-GI Pipe

Dear All,
 
 
I just want to know,whether Sour service material required for Instrument air line(GI threaded pipe).
 
 
Noushad
Doha-Qatar

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[MW:7289] RE: 7267 difference between E7018 and E7018-1

Dear Adi,

The designation of 1 in E 7018-1 represents that the electrode will meet the Charpy V-Notch Impact toughness
requirements at low tempearture. Actually, 7018-1 has better toughness at very lower sub-zero temperature as
well as more Manganese content than E7018.  

The purpose of having higher Mn% is to reduce the Ductile/Brittle Transition Temperature and to improve the low
temperature impact values of the weld metal.

The E 7018 will offer impact value of 47 Joules at -30 degree celcius and E7018-1 will give 47 joules at -50 degree
celcius.

Thanks and Regards,

Mani SarojKumar.
    

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RE: [MW:7286] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Dear All,
In the modern fast track projects these deviations are common , You can accept the deviation provided you extend the hold time for min 4 hrs for joints not seen or painted with chart recorder and accounting any pressure variation with tempt,

This is practiced in most of the offshore projects. However for onshore /subsea pipeline hold period is 24hrs and pressure variations vs tempt accounted.
Francis Lobo
----- Original Message -----
From: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
To: 'materials-welding@googlegroups.com'
Sent: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:03:40 +0530 (IST)
Subject: RE: [MW:7285] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end "painting/coating may mask the leak". Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro. In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.  
From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?
 
Hi,
Thanks for prompt reply
Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3
As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??
As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.
Regards,
Satish
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:
You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code. ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)
 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?
 Dear Members,
 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??
 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.
 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.
Regards,
Satish

 





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RE: [MW:7285] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

Interesting, and you have a valid point but nothing is proven, until then just go with the flow (tried and tested methods). No Inspector would be happy but bound to accept as per code.  remember your company specification prohibits it and you are intended to accept, hence code reference is given, Masking of any discontinuity by thin layer of paint, may be yes perhaps may be not. If you refer the paragraphs of these codes which will give a cautionary statement at the end “painting/coating may mask the leak”.

Normally weld joints are left open and rest of the area is painted before hydro.

In my opinion 105 bar is too high for a layer of paint to with stand, or you may allow only blasting and priming before hydro and final coating after hydro. If I remember correctly only Australian code AS1210 prohibits it.

 

From: Satish Hingalkar [mailto:shingalkar@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 12:49 PM
To: Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Subject: Re: [MW:7283] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for prompt reply

Piping system of having pipe rack near about 4 KM,service-Nitrogen,Code ASME B31.3

 

As u said,ASME B 31.3 allows,but my query is that whether painting will affect the joint leak detection normally found in hydrotest??

 

As per my knowledge,Painting has ability to penetrate and plug/ seal off small pin holes which are normally detected in hydro test.      After curing, paint can withstand pressure in small pin holes that can obstruct the leaks. But during operation, paint can be decomposed and start leaking,please comment.

 

Regards,

Satish

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING) <R.Bathula@ticb.com> wrote:

You have not specified the type of component, fluid and design code.

ASME code for both vessels and piping have this provision. Sec VIII div 1 allows except for lethal service (UG 99) and B31.3 allows except for sensitive leak testing (345.3.1)

 From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Satish Hingalkar
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:55 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:7276] Can we do painting prior to hydrotest?

 Dear Members,

 Our contractor has raised a design change request for painting prior to hydrotest.As per COMPANY specification,painting to be carried out after successfull complection of hydrotest,but contractor wants to do painting before hydrotest,can we accept this deviation? if  we want to accept the deviation,what criteria to be follow??

 Our design conditions are 105 barg hydrotest pressure and design temp.85 deg.c,NDT is 10% MT & 10% RT.

 Waiting for reply.Pl.respond ASAP.

 

Regards,

Satish


 


Re: [MW:7284] MW:7269] NACE MR0175

Most of tehe times material manufacturers perform their own tests in the laboratories to ensure that the material is suitable for the requirement. However, what i can assume is, which even needs to be clarified with supplier, material manufacturer would not had tested the sample material for such conditions & would be resisting to specify complinace with NACE as he is not sure about it.
 
For eg: Material qualified to Sec.IIA has to undergo mechanical, chemical testing etc. However, NACE does not specify any testing requirements (Except for material suspected to HIC, SOHIC, SZC etc) for prequalified materials to ensure it's complaince, it's only the restriction to element such as hardness, certian chemical contents & heat treatment condition. Hence, it would be appropriate that equipment user accepts the material.
 
However, please refer the Clause 5 of MR0175/ISO 15156-1:2001 which was been further clarified in the Techincal Circular 1:2007 clearly defining the responsibilities of  equipment uses and manufacturer/ supplier.
 
Quote:

"It is the Equipment user's responsibility to ensure that any material specified for use in their equipment will be satisfactory in the service condition.
 
It is the equipment or materials supplier's responsibility to meet the metallurgivcal & manufcturing requirements and when necessary any additional testing requirements of MR0175 for the material selected in the condition in which it is to enter the service."
 
Unquote:
 
So, basically, it is the users call. I hope it is clear now.
 

Dokku Ajay Kumar
Mobile: +966 500071054




From: pgoswami <pgoswami@quickclic.net>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, September 30, 2010 4:45:19 AM
Subject: [MW:7275] MW:7269] NACE MR0175

Hello Syed,

 

Materials for sour service should comply with the requirements of MR-0175.My understanding is that what NACE calls for that both manufacturer/supplier and the purchaser should be in compliance.

 

Purchaser or end users compliance is to specify the details as asked in Annex-E(see below).

 

Supplier/Manufacturer's responsibility : Although there is no direct reference to supplier/fabricator responsibility in MR0175/ISO15156 the following sections imply responsibility.

  • cooperate and communicate in an exchange of information between the end users and materials suppliers/manufacturers concerning required or suitable service conditions. ( Clause 5. to 5.5-Purchasing requirements)
  •  ensure the material purchased meets the end users requirements and the requirements of the standard. (Clause 7.0  and others, especially hardness and all required manufacturing requirements)

Both API-5L and ASTM A-106 are NACE accepted materials, which means they had undergone various qualification and acceptance steps, plus the service history in similar environment to be accepted. Hence they are very known material in sour environment. So material may not be a bothersome issue.

However at the first place if your P.O and other related contract documents calls for conformance to MR-0175, then the supplier has to conform to this and specify the same in the paperwork..

As you stated below: -But still they deny to declare  the compliance with NACE MR0175/ISO 15156, they say that  '' Only hardness according to NACE MR0175/ISO15156'' will be reported on mill test certificate. This does not sound convincing, looks some wishy washy stuff???

 

MR-0175 calls for:-Materials complying with this part of NACE MR0175/ISO 15156 shall be made traceable, preferably by marking, before delivery. Suitable labeling or documentation is also acceptable.

 

May be it's good  to ask the supplier why this deviation? before accepting the material.

 

I think I've my best to clarify your doubt. Further you may use the attached guide for your future references on MR-0175.This document is an useful guidebook but  without any liability.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.
Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
 
 

  

cid:1.1369525492@web55807.mail.re3.yahoo.com

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of DOKKU AJAY
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 9:44 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:7269] NACE MR0175

 

Resent, please ignore earlier e-mail as it was incomplete.

 

Hello Moin,

 

As the requirements from NACE MR 0175 specified by you had been agreed by the material manufacturer & the values will be stated in the MTC, solves your problem.

 

i.e the MTC shall state all the test results, i,e hardness, nickel content, Heat-treament condition. If all the conditions are acceptable as per Annexure-A.2, then the material can be accepted.

 

Please refer Clause 9 of Annexure -2, which states that "Suitable labelling or documentation is also acceptable". Hence MTC documenting the requirements is sufficient to accept the material.

 

I hope it was clear.


 

Dokku Ajay Kumar

 

Dokku Ajay Kumar
Mobile: +966 500071054

 

 


From: Moin - QC <Syed.Moin@gerabgroup.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 4:30:48 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:7253] NACE MR0175

Dear Pradeep,

 

Thanks for information,

 

Material we intent to purchase is API 5L line pipes and A106 pipes for SOUR service, these  product specification are listed in NACE MR0175.

 

Manufacturer has confirmed that Value of nickel content on product analysis will be less than 1%, Sulphur will be 0.004% Maximum,  CE value will be less than 0.38 and material will be supplied in '' Normalized formed'' condition.

 

But still they deny to declare  the compliance with NACE MR0175/ISO 15156, they say that  '' Only hardness according to NACE MR0175/ISO15156'' will be reported on mill test certificate.

 

I was trying to find out the restriction NACE MR0175 set forth for API 5L and A106  material, all I could find was restriction on nickel, sulphur and delivery condition(i.e. hot forming or Normalizing etc) which have been complied with by the manufacturer, but still they deny to declare the compliance with NACE MR0175 which left me confused.

 

Could you please put some light on this issue.

 

 

REGARDS,
SYED MOIN

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of pgoswami
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 5:48 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MW:7227] NACE MR0175

 

Hello Syed,

 

If you look at the end of MR-0175,Part-2, 2003-version, the list of accepted materials for sour service are listed. There are specifications for a few seamless pipes also.

 

Coming back to your query: Material According to NACE MR0175''—Implies that all the requirements of MR-0175 have been met by the manufacturer and the material is fit for sour service. If one goes through in details, MR-0175 provides the guidelines of what tests to be asked for sour services. See the sample below-ANNEX-E.

 

The second option specified by your manufacturer:- Hardness according NACE MR0175—does not make any real sense, this means they would conform to 22 HRC(248VHN) hardness requirements as required by the spec at the point of supply.

 

What's the specification of Pipes to be purchased??. If it's covered in MR-0175then the supplier has to stick a manufacturing and Q.A program meeting NACE MR-0175.If it's newer materials, it requires qualification to MR-0175.

 

It would be good if you read the MR-0175 and specifically ask for the applicable clauses, for your application, then it will put the mills on the hook.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgoswami@quickclic.net

 

 

5 Purchasing information

5.1 The preparation of material purchasing specifications might require co-operation and exchange of data between the equipment user, the equipment supplier and the material manufacturer to ensure that the material purchased complies with NACE MR0175/ISO 15156-1 and this part of NACE MR0175/ISO 15156.

5.2 The following information shall be provided:

·          preferred material types and/or grades (if known);

·         equipment type (if known);

·          reference to this part of NACE MR0175/ISO 15156;

·          acceptable bases for selection of materials for SSC resistance (see Clause 7);

·          requirements for HIC resistance (see Clause 8).

5.3 The equipment user and the equipment supplier/material manufacturer may agree that carbon or low alloy steels other than those described and/or listed in Annex A may be selected subject to suitable qualification testing in accordance with Annex B and NACE MR0175/ISO 15156-1. The qualification requirements may be extended to

include resistance to SOHIC and SZC.

If the purchaser intends to make use of such agreements, extensions and qualifications, the appropriate additional information shall be clearly indicated in the materials purchasing specification. This information may include

·         requirements for SSC testing (see 7.1, 7.2),

·         service conditions for specific sour service application, and

·         other special requirements.

5.4 Annex C describes how to calculate the H2S partial pressure and Annex D gives guidance on how to determine the pH-value of a fluid.

5.5 The information required for material purchasing shall be entered on suitable data sheets. Suggested formats are given in Annex E.

 

 

 

 


From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramprasad Chari
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 12:00 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:7209] NACE MR0175

 

If the mill supplying a seamless pipe is pre-qualified to supply NACE pipes,you need not carry out SSC test.Mill shall indicate NACE conformance on their TC including Hardness values.Everything depends on the customer's requirements.Many a times it is seen that Gas/liquid is not 'sour' with partial pressure of H2S so low that  NACE does not apply but still customer insists for NACE conformance.As I have indicated in my previous mail,if your customer permits you,you can carry out SSC test on a pipe as per TM0177 standard and conform Nace compliance through lab test reports including hardness.You can go one step further and get micro test done as per ASTM E-45 method D and confirm absence of 'elongated MnS inclusions'.If the mill confirms NACR compliance,you do not have to carry out any other tests unless your customer has asked you additional specific tests.

Regards

Aarpee

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Sivashankar Nagamanickamsundaramoorthy <poovaishankar@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Mr.Aarpee,

 

 Wheather SSC test is required for the Seamless pipes for the confirmation to the  NACE requirements ?.

 

 

Regards

 

Siva

 


From: Ramprasad Chari <ramprasad.chari@gmail.com>
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 1:48:58 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:7171] NACE MR0175

 

Conformance to NACE MR0175 certifies material to be used for 'sour' gas applications which implies that material is resistant to various cracking mechanisms assoiated with H2S presence in a wet gas/liquid.If the mill is pre-qualified carrying out tests as per TM0177 standard(for SSC) and TM0284(for HIC) then mill can certify conformance.Alternatively,if the client permits you can carry out the test per heat per size to confirm conformance to NACE MR0175.For seamless pipe HIC may not be required but for welded pipe,you may have to carry out HIC as well as SSC test.Hardness is one of the criterion of max 22HRC.If hardness is not achieved in 'as 'condition in weld and HAZ,you may have to carry out PWHT to ensure that hardness is below 22 HRC.

Regards

Aarpee

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Moin - QC <Syed.Moin@gerabgroup.com> wrote:

Hi,

Can somebody please explain the difference between '' Material According to NACE MR0175'' & '' Hardness according NACE MR0175''

I am purchasing some material from mill, but they said that they can meet the hardness requirement only, but cannot write '' Material accordance to NACE MR0175'' on material test certificate.

Material is seamless and welded pipe.

Thanks & Regards
SM


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,

[MW:34820] RE: 34813] Clarification in Rate of heating and cooling.

Hello,   Please see the response below.   Regards.   P. Goswami, P. Eng, IWE.   From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com <materials-weld...