Tuesday, August 31, 2010

Re: [MW:6815] Certified Welding Inspector Course -WRI(Welding Research Institute Trichy)

Mr.Farook...
                             I do not know by what meaning you are talking about WRI.you already told that you did not hear about the WRI.It is one of the best welding school  in India.The excellent faculties. very good Interaction and learning experience etc.Well equipped laboratories and updated workshop facilities etc etc...As a beginner it will be very much helpful for him to learn the subject from the field masters.The course itself designed for two weeks period,so before doing the international certifications it will give him a lot of knowledge and confident in the subject.
with kind regards,
Jawahar Balasubramanian.

--- On Tue, 8/31/10, Mohamed Farook <asfaruk@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mohamed Farook <asfaruk@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:6806] Certified Welding Inspector Course -WRI(Welding Research Institute Trichy)
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 6:40 PM

Dear Anand,
 
So far i didnt heard about WRI.. what Naushand told is correct. Go for CSWIP3.1 or AWS...if you want to do that course in india, then my suggestion is CSWIP 3.1  dont go for AWS \ because now a days even a people dont have experience also can pass this exam at india.. no value for that too...
 
All the best,
 
asfaruk

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Noushad cp <ncp.clt@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Pushpraj Anand,
 
 
Deftly you will get very good knowledge after Completing the course.better you go for CSWIP or AWS after some experience.WRI certificate have no value in abroad.
 
 
Noushad
Doha-Qatar


 
On 8/31/10, Pushpraj Anand <pushprajanand34@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 
This Welding Research Institute  Thrichy -CWI course is beneficial for Welding Inspection personals ? Can I get good job after completion of this course .
 
Kindly suggest me.

--
Regards,
Pushpraj Anand

Contact No: +919234655254

 

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RE: [MW:6813] A 217 Gr WC9

Hi Shashank,
 
Thanks for attachment.
I found on it the T23 filler metal for 2.25Cr-1Mo. I will make a comparison between it and others that Pgoswami has suggested.
 
Thanks for your interest Shashank.
 
L. Carlos Flores
Piping Team Leader
Oficina:(993) 310 8100 Ext. 106
Celular:(993) 250 6610



 



Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 05:24:01 +0530
From: nach_sam@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MW:6791] A 217 Gr WC9
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

Hi Luis,
I hope the attached Bohler data sheet will be useful. Please let me know if you found in it what you looked for.
Thanks,
Shashank Vagal

--- On Mon, 30/8/10, Luis Carlos <carlosflores126@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Luis Carlos <carlosflores126@hotmail.com>
Subject: [MW:6788] A 217 Gr WC9
To: "Materials & Welding" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 10:06 PM

Hello,

Could someone tell me please what is the best filler metal to make a
buttering over A-217 Gr WC9 base metal.

Are there special recommendations?

I will appreciate answers!

Luis Carlos

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RE: [MW:6813] MW: 6788- A 217 Gr WC9

Hi Pgoswami,
 
There is no other material to be welded.
 
We are working over Turbine's casing and we found those damages you can see on attached pictures.
 
By metalography we know they were fabricated on A-216 WCB and A-217 WC9
 
We appreciate your comments and suggestions
L. Carlos Flores
Piping Team Leader
Oficina:(993) 310 8100 Ext. 106
Celular:(993) 250 6610



 

From: pgoswami@quickclic.net
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6789] MW: 6788- A 217 Gr WC9
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:35:33 -0400

Hi Luis,
The material is 2.25Cr-1Mo steel (P 5A Gr 1)  in the shape of casting. What' the other material to be welded? A rule of thumb could be :-
  • A 217 Gr WC9 to P4 material-- Use P4 matching electrode for buttering, e.g-E 8018/16 B2 or E-7018B2 or GTAW filler of equivalent specification. You may use E-9018B3 or 8018B3L also, in that case buttering sequence may not be needed.
 
  • A 217 Gr WC9 to S.S- Use Inconel-182(E NiCrFe-3) or matching GTAW filler(ERNiCr-3) for buttering.PWHT the buttered area and   P5 steel as recommended by design code followed by welding to P8 without further PWHT.
Note the above guidelines are only generalized rule. Buttering sequences and welding electrodes to be used would depend on what material gets welded to A 217 Gr WC9 and the code or specification requirements.
 
Note the  precautions and welding parameters to be followed for buttering shall be identical to a groove  weld.
 
Thanks.
 
Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.
Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist
Ontario Power Generation Inc.
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
pgoswami@quickclic.net

-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [
mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Luis Carlos
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:37 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:6788] A 217 Gr WC9

Hello,

Could someone tell me please what is the best filler metal to make a buttering over A-217 Gr WC9 base metal.

Are there special recommendations?

I will appreciate answers!

Luis Carlos


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Re: [MW:6814] Certified Welding Inspector Course -WRI(Welding Research Institute Trichy)

im sorry to say like this guys... who told u that WRI CWI certificate has no value.. i got very gud offers with this certificate.. but for abroad CSWIP is valuable but knowledge wise both are same..If u want to get a job offer in abroad no doubt cswip is advisable.. In india WRI certificate is enough..infact cswip has no value in india :)

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Mohamed Farook <asfaruk@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Anand,
 
So far i didnt heard about WRI.. what Naushand told is correct. Go for CSWIP3.1 or AWS...if you want to do that course in india, then my suggestion is CSWIP 3.1  dont go for AWS \ because now a days even a people dont have experience also can pass this exam at india.. no value for that too...
 
All the best,
 
asfaruk

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Noushad cp <ncp.clt@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Pushpraj Anand,
 
 
Deftly you will get very good knowledge after Completing the course.better you go for CSWIP or AWS after some experience.WRI certificate have no value in abroad.
 
 
Noushad
Doha-Qatar


 
On 8/31/10, Pushpraj Anand <pushprajanand34@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 
This Welding Research Institute  Thrichy -CWI course is beneficial for Welding Inspection personals ? Can I get good job after completion of this course .
 
Kindly suggest me.

--
Regards,
Pushpraj Anand

Contact No: +919234655254

 

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Regards,

Mohan Murali.B
Asst.Manager,QA(Cab&Cowl)
TATA Motors Ltd.,Jamshedpur
Mobile No:+919534084118

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Re: [MW:6809] Required Tests

you can do as per iso 15614-1 or -2.

2010/8/31 Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein <mkh_200@yahoo.com>
Dear,
I hope to the required tests need for the welder performance qualification (WPQ) according to the EN code and i hope to know the name of this code?
SaSa

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--
regards,
Harish.

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[MW:6808] RE: 6805] Required Tests

For ferritic materials (carbon steel, alloy steel, stainless steel) EN 287-1, Approval testing of welders – Fusion welding – Part 1:  Steels.

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:37 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6805] Required Tests

 

Dear,

I hope to the required tests need for the welder performance qualification (WPQ) according to the EN code and i hope to know the name of this code?

SaSa

 

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[MW:6806] tests for PQR using R 308 LT1-5 flux cored filler rod

Dear members
 
Can anybody suggest what are the special test requirements for performing PQR on a 6"dia, 8 mm thk. SS 304 pipe using TGX-308L flux cored filler rod for root run.
Subsequent passes are by conventional TIG wire followed by Arc welding.
 
Regards
Hrishi

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Re: [MW:6806] Certified Welding Inspector Course -WRI(Welding Research Institute Trichy)

Dear Anand,
 
So far i didnt heard about WRI.. what Naushand told is correct. Go for CSWIP3.1 or AWS...if you want to do that course in india, then my suggestion is CSWIP 3.1  dont go for AWS \ because now a days even a people dont have experience also can pass this exam at india.. no value for that too...
 
All the best,
 
asfaruk

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Noushad cp <ncp.clt@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Pushpraj Anand,
 
 
Deftly you will get very good knowledge after Completing the course.better you go for CSWIP or AWS after some experience.WRI certificate have no value in abroad.
 
 
Noushad
Doha-Qatar


 
On 8/31/10, Pushpraj Anand <pushprajanand34@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 
This Welding Research Institute  Thrichy -CWI course is beneficial for Welding Inspection personals ? Can I get good job after completion of this course .
 
Kindly suggest me.

--
Regards,
Pushpraj Anand

Contact No: +919234655254

 

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Re: [MW:6803] Certified Welding Inspector Course -WRI(Welding Research Institute Trichy)

 
Pushpraj Anand,
 
 
Deftly you will get very good knowledge after Completing the course.better you go for CSWIP or AWS after some experience.WRI certificate have no value in abroad.
 
 
Noushad
Doha-Qatar


 
On 8/31/10, Pushpraj Anand <pushprajanand34@gmail.com> wrote:
 
 
This Welding Research Institute  Thrichy -CWI course is beneficial for Welding Inspection personals ? Can I get good job after completion of this course .
 
Kindly suggest me.

--
Regards,
Pushpraj Anand

Contact No: +919234655254

 

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Re: [MW:6801] MW: 6787- RE: 6769] Any WPS for P91 Material withoutPWHT

Dear All,
It is very good thought by member asking for WPS without PWHT for P91 Material , In fact this materials is very very critical with respect to service as well as welding point is concerned, This material once you start welding ,you can not stop and post heating is required to be used till you start stress relieving other wise you may not acheive  the hardness and microstructure desired. In my previous project we had arrangement for alternative power source such as desiel welding generator as standby in case main power supply failure to avoid interruption in contnuity of welding . I do not think you have solution for the issue .

Regards,


----- Original Message -----
From: pgoswami
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:57:52 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [MW:6792] MW: 6787- RE: 6769] Any WPS for P91 Material without PWHT








 



Dear Faruk,


 


NO CODE WILL ALLOW 
P-91 STEEL TO BE WELDED WITHOUT PWHT
.


 


Further to the recommendations of John, I
would like to add a few points. P-91 is classified as P 5B Gr2 material in ASME
Sec-IX. Often in the past people thought this steel to be "just another Chrome
Moly" steel, till the "lessons were learnt".  P-91 steel is never used in
ambient temperature  or  typically  for
 
15psi  (very low) design
pressure ranges. This  material is recommended for design and pressure
ranges where any mishap (minor or major) could cause human fatalities. If you do
a google search with these keywords " p-91 steel, failure,  fatalities",
you will see tons of articles.


 


The attached article would provide a good
general guidance on P-91 steel and understand the need for
PWHT.


 


Let me know if it
helps.


 


Thanks.


 


 


Pradip
Goswami,P.Eng.


Welding
& Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist


Ontario
Power Generation Inc.


Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,


pgoswami@quickclic.net


 


 




From:
materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of John Henning
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:01
AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6787]
RE: 6769] Any WPS for P91 Material without
PWHT


 


Not a good
idea.  Not only is 91 in the as welded condition rather brittle but it has
been shown to be subject to stress corrosion cracking in the presence of water
(condensation, dew, rain, etc.).  You can find recommendations sprinkled
throughout open literature that discuss the need to keep as welded 91 warm and
dry between welding and PWHT.  (A tedious Google search should reveal at
least four good references – a task left to you).  There have been several
91 failures traced back to SCC due to improper handling of 91 in the as welded
condition.  Some recommendations not only restrict storage conditions but
also time duration. 


 


As previously pointed
out, all ASME codes require PWHT for all welded 91 without any
exemptions.


 


John


 




From:
materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Mohamed Farook
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 11:00
PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6769]
Any WPS for P91 Material without PWHT


 


Dear friends,


 


Greetings to all,


 


Please advise me if you
have WPS for P91 material without PWHT….


 


PWHT is time
consuming..


 


Thanks and Regards,


asfaruk


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[MW:6802] Certified Welding Inspector Course -WRI(Welding Research Institute Trichy)

 
 
This Welding Research Institute  Thrichy -CWI course is beneficial for Welding Inspection personals ? Can I get good job after completion of this course .
 
Kindly suggest me.

--
Regards,
Pushpraj Anand

Contact No: +919234655254

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RE: [MW:6800] wrong holes on header closed by welding-reg

01.The holes closed is a right method?

If you have made a proper bevel and welded with GTAW root, could not be a problem.

02.what will be the strength in future working conditions?

You may provide an additional pad plate on top of it, best alternative could be if space permits provide a nozzle with blind flange.

03.what will be the suitable inspection method at this condition?

Check with remote visual (e.g. video scope) for full penetration. if you are not sure of weld quality better to remove cap, inspect the patch  and re weld the cap.

04.finally ,can accept this or not?

Acceptance and salvage depends on your construction code and client’s./ AI’s acceptance.

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karthik
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:51 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6799] wrong holes on header closed by welding-reg

 


Dear all,

in our current job of prefurnace,holes(2 nos.on end of the both side of header) specified in the drawing was wrong.But it was found only after the holes were drilled.

Specification of header pipe as follows.

Material - A106 Gr.B

Dia - 6"

Thk. - 7.11mm

Hole dia - 74

Design Pressure - 16bar

MAWT - 190degree celsius

After that,it was noticed to our engineering departmmment and they revised the drawing and asked our production to close the wrong holes by attach the same grade of material and weld.Now the repair has finished as said above.

But on this hole closed area, we cannot do UT (because of thickness limitation) also RT cannot be done because of the adjacent tubes and elbows.Even we cannot see the penetration of the weld due to endplates were closed on both sides.just we did PT only and there is no defects.

Pls.give your suggestion on the below questions.

 

01.The holes closed is a right method?

02.what will be the strength in future working conditions?

03.what will be the suitable inspection method at this condition?

04.finally ,can accept this or not?

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

(Karthik)

 

Karthikeyan.S

QA/QC Manager

Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.

379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,

Rayong-21180,

Thailand.

Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)

Fax: 0066 38 897034

Hand Phone: 0066 892512282

 


[MW:6799] wrong holes on header closed by welding-reg


Dear all,
in our current job of prefurnace,holes(2 nos.on end of the both side of header) specified in the drawing was wrong.But it was found only after the holes were drilled.
Specification of header pipe as follows.
Material - A106 Gr.B
Dia - 6"
Thk. - 7.11mm
Hole dia - 74
Design Pressure - 16bar
MAWT - 190degree celsius
After that,it was noticed to our engineering departmmment and they revised the drawing and asked our production to close the wrong holes by attach the same grade of material and weld.Now the repair has finished as said above.
But on this hole closed area, we cannot do UT (because of thickness limitation) also RT cannot be done because of the adjacent tubes and elbows.Even we cannot see the penetration of the weld due to endplates were closed on both sides.just we did PT only and there is no defects.
Pls.give your suggestion on the below questions.
 
01.The holes closed is a right method?
02.what will be the strength in future working conditions?
03.what will be the suitable inspection method at this condition?
04.finally ,can accept this or not?
 
Thanks & Regards,
 
(Karthik)

 
Karthikeyan.S
QA/QC Manager
Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.
379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,
Rayong-21180,
Thailand.
Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)
Fax: 0066 38 897034
Hand Phone: 0066 892512282

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[MW:6805] Required Tests

Dear,
I hope to the required tests need for the welder performance qualification (WPQ) according to the EN code and i hope to know the name of this code?
SaSa

Re: [MW:6798] Propane or butane to preheat

Hi,
01.Diffrence:Butane is not a highly toxic gas. Therefore, it can be safely, properly stored inside with  little worry. You can also extract approximately 12 percent more energy per liter from butane than you can propane, which means that, liter for liter, you will get more mileage out of butane. Butane is also a cheaper gas to purchase, though propane is more widely available . (extract from the article)
02.For WPS - Change in the type of preheat/type of gas is not an essential variable.Some customer specifications may restrict while you do on site.So pls.refer to project spec.if you work on site.
Thanks & Regards,
 
(karthik)

Karthikeyan.S
QA/QC Manager
Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.
379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,
Rayong-21180,
Thailand.
Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)
Fax: 0066 38 897034
Hand Phone: 0066 892512282


--- On Tue, 8/31/10, eduardocalva@hotmail.com <eduardocalva@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: eduardocalva@hotmail.com <eduardocalva@hotmail.com>
Subject: [MW:6794] Propane or butane to preheat
To: "Materials & Welding" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 1:30 AM

Could all of you tell me the difference between preheat with propane
and butane?, If a WPS is qualified by preheating with propane but
butane is used in production welds is wrong?

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[MW:6797] RE: 6794] Propane or butane to preheat

No you can use either
John du Plessis
Technology Manager

Tel: +27 (11) 298 2100
Tel: +27 (11) 298 2103 (Direct)
Fax: +27 (11) 836 6014
Mobile:+27 82 883 4970
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-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
[mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
eduardocalva@hotmail.com
Sent: 30 August 2010 08:31 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:6794] Propane or butane to preheat

Could all of you tell me the difference between preheat with propane
and butane?, If a WPS is qualified by preheating with propane but
butane is used in production welds is wrong?

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w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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RE: [MW:6796] Propane or butane to preheat

Nothing wrong in it, gas used for heating is not a variable to consider.

sent from my handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: eduardocalva@hotmail.com
Sent: 31/08/2010 12:00:40 am
Subject: [MW:6794] Propane or butane to preheat

Could all of you tell me the difference between preheat with propane
and butane?, If a WPS is qualified by preheating with propane but
butane is used in production welds is wrong?

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[MW:6789] MW: 6788- A 217 Gr WC9

Hi Luis,

The material is 2.25Cr-1Mo steel (P 5A Gr 1)  in the shape of casting. What' the other material to be welded? A rule of thumb could be :-

  • A 217 Gr WC9 to P4 material-- Use P4 matching electrode for buttering, e.g-E 8018/16 B2 or E-7018B2 or GTAW filler of equivalent specification. You may use E-9018B3 or 8018B3L also, in that case buttering sequence may not be needed.
 
  • A 217 Gr WC9 to S.S- Use Inconel-182(E NiCrFe-3) or matching GTAW filler(ERNiCr-3) for buttering.PWHT the buttered area and   P5 steel as recommended by design code followed by welding to P8 without further PWHT.
Note the above guidelines are only generalized rule. Buttering sequences and welding electrodes to be used would depend on what material gets welded to A 217 Gr WC9 and the code or specification requirements.
 
Note the  precautions and welding parameters to be followed for buttering shall be identical to a groove  weld.
 
Thanks.
 
Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.
Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist
Ontario Power Generation Inc.
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
pgoswami@quickclic.net

-----Original Message-----
From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [
mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Luis Carlos
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:37 PM
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:6788] A 217 Gr WC9

Hello,

Could someone tell me please what is the best filler metal to make a buttering over A-217 Gr WC9 base metal.

Are there special recommendations?

I will appreciate answers!

Luis Carlos


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Re: [MW:6804] P91_SR

Dear Ravindra
Use capacitor discharge unit to attach TC to job to measure metal temp
Regards
Hegde

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA


From: "Ravinder Sharma" <ravinder@isgec.com>
Sender: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:05:49 +0530
To: <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6786] P91_SR

 

 

Hi friends ,

Can anybody suggest better way to attach thermocouple on P91 pipe for SR avoiding the welding, in non- calibrated furnace? Metal temperature to be measured directly.

 

Ravinder Sharma

[MW:6793] MW:6776- PWHT of dissimilar materials

 

Hello Safa,

 

What's the piping design code? I did not see any clause  in B-31.3,which calls for "allowable stress values should be chosen in accordance with the hydro test temperature which should be lower because of excessive PWHT".  I may be wrong also ?

 

If you're fabricating P-91 spool then 7300C is not a high or very excessive temperature. This temperature or more  is the recommended PWHT temperature  range for this steel.

7300or more typically is the annealing temperature  range for carbon steel. A test cap welded and heat treated repeatedly in the annealing range will get softened considerably and eventually may not withstand the hydro test pressure. So as a rule of thumb they should not be reused more than once, unless there're documented proof of material properties.

 

Prior to reuse grind well so as to ensure previous weld metals and HAZs are completely removed.

 

Alternatively I would say the suggestions of Mr. Karthik is quite practical, since it may ensure safety during hydro test.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgoswami@quickclic.net

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karthik
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:07 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MW:6776] PWHT of dissimilar materials

 

Hi,

You can do PWHT before hydrotest without caps by add (200 to 300mm) small length of same P91 pipe to the existing pipe spool .After PWHT, you can weld the hydrotest cap to the end of added pipe length. After Hydro test finished you cut the excess length of the pipe with cap.

This will be the best one, if you concern about the caps durability.

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

(karthik) 

Karthikeyan.S

QA/QC Manager

Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.

379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,

Rayong-21180,

Thailand.

Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)

Fax: 0066 38 897034

Hand Phone: 0066 892512282



--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Safa Özhan <safaozhan@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Safa Özhan <safaozhan@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [MW:6774] PWHT of dis-similar materials
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 3:21 PM

Dear John,

 

Thanks for your reply, but as per our design codes PWHT should be done before Hydrostatic test.

 

Safa

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Johnson Madukayil
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:54 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:6767] PWHT of dis-similar materials

 

Why do you have to keep the hydrotest caps on after hydrotest? I would advise you to remove the caps and then do the PWHT.

Johnson Madukayil

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Safa Özhan <safaozhan@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

I think we've got a really serious problem regarding PWHT of dissimilar
materials.

In some of our in-house applications, we have to weld hydro test caps on open ends' of pipe-spools in order to hydro test them.

After welding of caps are completed, we heat treat the spools together with (most of the time caps made of dissimilar material, mostly CS Caps because
of cheapness) Hydro-Test caps. Even though, thickness of these hydro test caps are calculated as per related code, one of our concern starts because
of the effects of excessive heat treatment on hydro test caps. Because; as per codes, allowable stress values should be chosen in accordance with the
hydro test temperature which should be lower because of excessive PWHT, but how much
? Are there any codes explaining this situation ? Does any member has experienced same kind of problem ?

Other concerning point is the service life of that work piece.  Even though the caps work properly after PWHT, then the question should be how many
times we can use that caps in our other hydro tests, of course safely
. The main problem indeed is, are there any approach which can assume/predict the material properties (Especially reduction in durability.) after PWHT depending of PWHT parameters ?

It would be highly appreciated if some of you can address a code with a working example of solution.

In order to visualize the problem pls see below example of the concerning situation;

- Material of spool is P91 and the cap's is CS.
- PWHT temp  : 730 C
- PWHT duration : 1 hr.

How can we calculate the reduction in durability ?

Thanks for your time,

Regards,

Safa


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THIS MESSAGE IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE INTENDED RECIPIENT(S) AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, PROPRIETARY AND/OR CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying, conversion to hard copy or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify me by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Ontario Power Generation Inc.

[MW:6790] MW: 6782] 9Cr-1Mo/9Cr-1Mo-V steel welds

 

Hi Abby,

 

9Cr-1Mo-V, or P-91 steel should be of  fully  martensitic structure to impart the best mechanical properties as recommended by various literature and other established welding practices. However there had been  reported cases on formation of “delta ferrite” (termed as residual , as being unwanted) in this steel. Delta ferrite reduces toughness and creep resistance and may transform to “sigma phase” at high temperature.

 

By keeping Chromium Equivalent  (Cr eq) below 10, the tendency to form delta ferrite is reduced. This number is not absolute, but provides a good guideline since elevated delta ferrite in this material reduces its toughness. Even materials with Cr eq between 10 and 12 may exhibit adequate toughness when the delta ferrite does not exceed five (5) percent.

 

·         Cr eq= Cr + 6Si + 4Mo + 1.5W + 11V + 5Nb + 9Ti + 12Al - 40C –30N - 4Ni - 2Mn-1Cu                                                                                                             ( Ref API-938B, Use of 9Cr-1Mo-V (Grade 91) Steel in the Oil Refining Industry.

 

The delta ferrite formation tendency for P-91 steel would be quite similar to austenitic stainless steels, as delta ferrite is a high temperature phase, which  does not get enough time to disperse during weld solidification. If the weld chemistry is properly balanced this reaction could be avoided to a good extent.

 

The advanced CSEF (Creep Strength Enhanced  Ferritic)  steels such as P-92 ( Similar to P91, but with 0.5Mo-1.7W ), P-911(Similar to P91, but with 1%W), may have more tendency on formation of ferrite and resultant sigma phase and would require more careful control of weld chemistry.

 

The attached paper sheds good light on the same topic.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgoswami@quickclic.net

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)

Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:31 AM

To: 'materials-welding@googlegroups.com'

Subject: RE: [MW:6782] 9Cr-1Mo/9Cr-1Mo-V steel welds

 

To my limited knowledge, it is also depend on time at temperatures, there are studies demonstrated that formation of σ at 480 °C in alloy with less than 12% Cr. However it also states σ forms with long time exposure in the range of 565-980 °C. The composition of σ in austenitic stainless steels is more complex than it is for simple iron-chromium ferritic grades. Carbon also decrease σ formation by forming chromium carbides.

 

Source: ASM Handbook

 

-----Original Message-----

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathalingam Babu

Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:29 PM

To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:6780] 9Cr-1Mo/9Cr-1Mo-V steel welds

 

Hi Abby

 

Pls note that , 9Cr-1Mo/9Cr-1Mo-V  Steels are the Ferritic Steels.

 

Don't confuse Sigma embitterment of ASS with Ferritic Steels.

 

Regards,

 

K.Babu

Singapore

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Abby Joseph" <abbyjoseph@gmail.com>

To: "Materials & Welding" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:37 PM

Subject: [MW:6775] 9Cr-1Mo/9Cr-1Mo-V steel welds

 

 

Do 9Cr-1Mo/9Cr-1Mo-V steel welds also develop sigma phase during service, like some stainless steels?

 (Note- these alloys also contain substantial wt% of Cr, Fe and Mo. They are also exposed to the high temp at which sigma phase forms.)

If not, why?

 

 

 Regards,

Abby Joseph

 

Filtered by Hosted Filtering

 

 

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THIS MESSAGE IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE INTENDED RECIPIENT(S) AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, PROPRIETARY AND/OR CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying, conversion to hard copy or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify me by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Re: [MW:6791] A 217 Gr WC9

Hi Luis,
I hope the attached Bohler data sheet will be useful. Please let me know if you found in it what you looked for.
Thanks,
Shashank Vagal

--- On Mon, 30/8/10, Luis Carlos <carlosflores126@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Luis Carlos <carlosflores126@hotmail.com>
Subject: [MW:6788] A 217 Gr WC9
To: "Materials & Welding" <materials-welding@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 10:06 PM

Hello,

Could someone tell me please what is the best filler metal to make a
buttering over A-217 Gr WC9 base metal.

Are there special recommendations?

I will appreciate answers!

Luis Carlos

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[MW:6792] MW: 6787- RE: 6769] Any WPS for P91 Material without PWHT

 

Dear Faruk,

 

NO CODE WILL ALLOW  P-91 STEEL TO BE WELDED WITHOUT PWHT.

 

Further to the recommendations of John, I would like to add a few points. P-91 is classified as P 5B Gr2 material in ASME Sec-IX. Often in the past people thought this steel to be “just another Chrome Moly” steel, till the “lessons were learnt”.  P-91 steel is never used in ambient temperature  or  typically  for   15psi  (very low) design pressure ranges. This  material is recommended for design and pressure ranges where any mishap (minor or major) could cause human fatalities. If you do a google search with these keywords “ p-91 steel, failure,  fatalities”, you will see tons of articles.

 

The attached article would provide a good general guidance on P-91 steel and understand the need for PWHT.

 

Let me know if it helps.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgoswami@quickclic.net

 

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Henning
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:01 AM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6787] RE: 6769] Any WPS for P91 Material without PWHT

 

Not a good idea.  Not only is 91 in the as welded condition rather brittle but it has been shown to be subject to stress corrosion cracking in the presence of water (condensation, dew, rain, etc.).  You can find recommendations sprinkled throughout open literature that discuss the need to keep as welded 91 warm and dry between welding and PWHT.  (A tedious Google search should reveal at least four good references – a task left to you).  There have been several 91 failures traced back to SCC due to improper handling of 91 in the as welded condition.  Some recommendations not only restrict storage conditions but also time duration. 

 

As previously pointed out, all ASME codes require PWHT for all welded 91 without any exemptions.

 

John

 

From: materials-welding@googlegroups.com [mailto:materials-welding@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mohamed Farook
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 11:00 PM
To: materials-welding@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6769] Any WPS for P91 Material without PWHT

 

Dear friends,

 

Greetings to all,

 

Please advise me if you have WPS for P91 material without PWHT….

 

PWHT is time consuming..

 

Thanks and Regards,

asfaruk

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THIS MESSAGE IS ONLY INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE INTENDED RECIPIENT(S) AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, PROPRIETARY AND/OR CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying, conversion to hard copy or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, please notify me by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Ontario Power Generation Inc.

[MW:34866] Presentation for WPS ,PQR AND WPQ as per ASME Sec IX in power point

Dear Experts.        If anyone having presentation of WPS,PQR and WPQ  as per ASME  SEC.IX  in power point then please share . Regards Sanja...